Curious about the business tactic used here...

[darbycmcd]

I am just sort of curious about the rationale behind the long silence that the game developers use on this message board. Is it to highten tension? sort of a take on the 'keep them mean, keep them keen' dating school of relationships?

I mean, there were some people on this board that took a fair amount of time to crunch some numbers and do some thinking, for a product that they will then have the privilage of BUYING. Ok, I totally understand that no one is making a living off these games, but still, the effort still goes to making you money. One would think a small game company would actually do something to INJECT energy into that effort (volunteers trying to make you more money) rather than sucking away the energy. What I tell my clients who are looking to build a business is that when a company is small and highly resource constrained you have to be creative about leveraging those resources. For example, people who want to help should be mobilized perhaps more than ignored.... but I mean that is just my opinion.

Now I also understand that there is time crunch involved. So I will do a little experiment. I will just come up with 3 things the community could have been asked to work on just to see how much time it would take.....

1) hey guys, could each of you just do the system generation for a 3 empire expansion game, for say 20 systems for each player. then just see if there is anything that looks very unbalancing about it or what could be better.

2) my friends! here is a ship list for 2 empires i used to test the combat system, could you each spend a bit of time to generate some theoretcial fleets and stress test the system a bit, particularly the subsystems that are proposed for 2e that are new (cyberware, etc)

3) compatriates! the floor is now open for any ship systems you think might be cool to include. let me know

ok, that took me a bit longer than i thought, i was guessing 1 minute for the 3 but it was more like 2. i have been very busy in my life, but never so busy that i didn't have .66 minutes to post something on a message board, for my own business..... but that is just me.

sorry for the snarky tone you guys, but seriously.....

[Vandervecken]

When I first found out about VBAM, I had read that they were gonna do a 2nd edition, so I waited many months and the Forum was just about dead. Then something wonderful happened and the VBAM people showed themselves to the public. And The Public responded ! Many interesting ideas flowed thru the forums, issues were found and fixed. So much stuff was coming in that I think the VBAM staff got overloaded and lost their way. Now they are trying to decide where to go and what to keep; but it is hard because we might have been too good at 'helping' them. So I hope this breather from posting at their own forums will be used by them to put their (and Our) best Ideas in a cocoon, and soon it will emerge as a new and glorious creature (2nd Edition). I always say STAFF, but it really is just 3 or 4 people and subtracting their regular life's time requirements leaves only just so much time for work on this highly anticipated project of theirs. No matter what they include or exclude, somebody will complain about some decision they made, I'm just looking for a Consistant set of rules that you can read in less time than 'War and Peace' and possibly hook my ol' friends back into playing a space empire game now that none of us have any younger hatchlings. Maybe even include some of the "NEXT' generation in our machiavellian schemes.

Still ... some weekly update or feedback would be the most prudent thing for the VBAM staff to do. Don't leave those who show the greatest interest in purchasing this product to founder and possible wander away.

Of course, I'm still updating my own space empire system. At my current furious pace, in another 2 or 3 centuries, I'll give em a run for their money.

[murtalianconfederacy]

Speaking as someone on the inside, so to speak, I haven't heard much either...

[Vandervecken]

Murtailian Confederacy,

Don't you also have offerings and insights at the MJ12 site. Hopefully that can help you get thru this dry spell at this site, eh ?? Always like going over your posts, good stuff; keep up the good work.

[murtalianconfederacy]

Haven't had the time to do much more than do a cursory glance at the files, and my time has been burnt up by doing S:AE supplements...

[darbycmcd]

Yeah it is sort of quiet/weird. I thought that we had shown some good support when they asked for feedback. And really it was clear that they could use some additional playtesting/stresstesting. It seemed to me that the community responds when there is something to respond to. But now it is starting to feel a bit disrespectful quite honestly. I don't mean personally disrespectful, but maybe more what I mean is this company doesn't seem to really respect its best customers. Oh well, Starfire is looking to release its latest version sometime soon. But honestly, I will buy whatever VBAM turns out, I just feel sort of bewildered that they would snub the community here this way.

To ask for help (and I think 2E needs some input) and then I guess turn out a product for us to pay for without further communication is not a great way to run any kind of relationship. I know I am coming across as angry, and I really am not, it is just a game. I am serious that I am at a loss to understand it. I really like VBAM products, but why would they sabotage themselves this way?

[Charles Lewis]

I apologize for the extended quiet, but I'd been hoping Tyrel would have responded by now. He's the one leading the charge on 2E while Jay and I were working on the FA collaboration that is now, unfortunately, all but dead. I have the latest alpha of the rules, and am planning on starting a new solo campaign with my progress posted here on the forums so we can have sort of traffic while he finishes up the draft.

Keep in mind, too, that VBAM Games is a labor of love. Jay and I both have wives and kids, and Tyrel is kept hopping running his own business. VBAM is done on the side in those spaces we're able to carve out for things not essential for putting food on the table and spending time with our families. We want 2E out there as much as you do, probably more, and it will.

Guys, this thing has been simmering for a long time, and we're getting very close. Hang in there!

[darbycmcd]

Thank you very much. I really do appreciate the update. I do understand that it is a labor of love, and that nearly everything else is higher priorty. But even a little note once in a while, after requesting input, really helps feel like the company is engaged. It might even help drive some sales!

The really disturbing thing is your note about FA being dead!!!! damn, I was really looking forward to that. I was even going to buy it although I have a long standing policy against buying anything from ADB. Hopefully you can use the work on your own product. It would be a pity to invest so much effort an not reap some rerward.

[Iron Sky]

This is an extremely niche product. If every regular at these boards bought every book they put out, it probably still wouldn't be minimum wage for the amount of time they've put in already. Not saying it is likely to help sales, but VBAM seems more like a hobby that might make a little bit of money while they keep their day jobs.

[Vandervecken]

I had been hoping that 2E would have made a 'End of 2011' release; it would have made a great X-mas present for my gaming buddies and all, but now it seems like 2012 is the TARGET. Is VBAM expecting to release it by end of 1st Quarter, Spring, or possibly later. I haven't had a raise in 3 years (But am glad that I still have a job compared to some in my community) and funds for my Hobby has dimminished, as gas, groceries, and everything else has risen in price. It would have been nice for both VBAM and us if they had hit the 2011 market. Now they will have to compete with Starfire - Ultra II, Starmada's new edition, and some board games that people in this 'Niche' may want to get as word about Eclipse spreads, as well as expansions for Battleship Galaxies, and new offerings from lesser known full time game companies such a Z-Man games, Fantasy Flight, etc ...

That means it's gonna be a great year for building Empires in Space .. but with our limited funds, some entries in 2012 will suffer because of this. May the best (and most fun) products win. If I see a close race between products, I'll usually pick a small company over Hasbro, but it's got to be close and "Off the drawing board and on the market".

Of course, if you could just find someone who could write great Science Fiction and put in his Bio that his story came from fleshing out his VBAM campaign, just those few words would add dozens to hundreds of sales. As Weber's work did for 3rd edition of Starfire. Don't look at me, I'm infinitely closer to getting my own game published (talking centuries) as to getting a book written (talking Eons). I say this in jest, but tie-ins of any type can sure help; if you are lucky enough to find or make one.

P.S. - I just lurk at the "Starfire" boards, but if you want to read some good stuff based on a space based empire building game, go to the starfire fiction forum. Procyon's Nemesis campaign is so good, he should quit both his current jobs and write full time. and some others are quite interesting as well. It will help you pass the time till we are once again called upon to get this "Candle" lit, eh ?

[Tyrel Lohr]

I'm sorry for the lack of communications on this side. I have a bad tendency to drop off the grid while I'm working on the rules, largely because I end up spending the majority of my free time writing or playtesting and then forget to check back on the forums. This last month has been busy for me, too, which hasn't helped matters at all.

I had really hoped to have the rules finished by now, but I can at least report that there has been substantial progress since mid September when the last major update was rolled out. Jay and I managed to find time to sit down and hash out a rewrite of the encounter generation rules than then culminated in a revision of the CSCR. The end result has been an overall reduction in workload with those rules that I hope addresses some of the concerns that were raised about how those rules were looking in the previous published draft.

The unit construction rules seem to be working fine. Here is a link to a quick test document that I have been working off of the last month: http://www.vbamgames.com/20111202_VBAM_Construction.xls It should give you an idea of how the unit construction system works without having to do the math yourself. Not all of the special abilities are present on the sheet; I have been adding them as they come up in playtest campaigns.

While it has been a refrain for months now, I hope to have the final diplomacy rules finished up over the weekend and integrated into the draft, and I'll post the revised version early next week once that's taken care of. The rules are all pretty much written in the previous draft, but I don't like adding rules until I've had a chance to filter them through the lens of the current rules to try and head off as many consistency issues as I possible can.

As for when the rules will be ready for release, at this point I don't even want to guess. I had hoped to have them completely done by now, but realistically we are going to be looking at starting a public playtest on January 1 to work out the final rough edges while I get the book layout done in InDesign. The playtest game or games would probably last until the end of March to give enough to work through a year or two of game time, at which time any changes that need to be made should be finished and the book will be ready for release.

I'll check in here every morning from here on out so that we can stay on top of things and keep people informed as to where we are. If I can find the time this weekend between updating the diplomacy rules I'll also start a quick forum game to demonstrate where things are going.

[Vandervecken]

Gentlemen at VBAM,

It's been over 2 weeks since last update from VBAM staff. Can any of you give us a quick update.

P.S. Happy Holidays

[Charles Lewis]

I haven't heard anything from Tyrel since before Christmas. Hopefully he will appear here soon and enlighten us all.

[darbycmcd]

I find myself starting to care about this product about as much as the company seems to care about us... Truth be told, I will probably still buy the game, I am a sucker for the genre and really I think only this and Starfire do it paper style! But since Tyrel's group seems to have all the playtesting covered and they don't need any external playtesting, I guess any input we would have generated is superfluous anyway.

[virtutis.umbra]

Instead of denigrating the game designers for not meeting our needs, I think it'd be more productive to run a playtest game of our own over the forums to generate interest and get some sunlight on confusion or gaps in the RAW.

I for one am way too busy with other stuff, including my own 1E VBAM game, to make the time investment to do that, though; as a result, I can feel some sympathy for the silence from the game devs!