potential Cold War with China item

[MarkG88]

Interesting article from Washington Times. Cold War II anyone?
-Mark

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbc ... 90082/1001

[Charles Lewis]

I don't think it heralds a new Cold War. China has a long history of having "misunderstandings" when it wants to let another country feel its displeasure. If you look up Passive-Aggressive in the dictionary, you'll find Chinese Diplomatic Tactics.

[MarkG88]

I don't think it heralds a new Cold War. China has a long history of having "misunderstandings" when it wants to let another country feel its displeasure. If you look up Passive-Aggressive in the dictionary, you'll find Chinese Diplomatic Tactics.

*snorts* Good one Charlie!

[Iron Knight]

I think China is bad news, but a cold war is not in either countries' best interest. We should be more wary of them then we are... (blowing up our weather satellite and all).

I would think it could make an interesting war game though

[Rainer]

I also do not think that China wants to risk anything yet. Once they have a decent navy in a few decades and/or begin to have massive internal stability problems, then it is the time to worry.

[MarkG88]

Here's yet more fodder for the topic from today's strategypage.com newsletter:

INFORMATION WARFARE: The Empire Strikes Back

December 7, 2007: Britain has called in outside consultants to develop methods to defend British government and commercial secrets from being stolen by increasingly aggressive Chinese Cyber War efforts. While China continues to insist it is innocent, MI5 (Britain’s internal security organization) is convinced that China has been carrying out a massive, and largely well hidden, espionage campaign via the Internet. China has demanded proof, but MI5 refuses to provide details. That’s because letting China know what MI5 has found, would result in those sources disappearing. Commercial Internet security firms are a better source of information on what’s going on. China has apparently contracted out some of the work, to Internet criminal gangs in other countries (like Russia, which is becoming a safe haven for many major Cyber Crime operations.)

But China also uses some well known, and usually effective, techniques to hide attacks coming from China itself. Apparently some stuff is so sensitive (particularly British military secrets), that the Chinese don’t trust it to foreigners. But commercial secrets are another matter. China can use this stuff, and also sell or barter it on the black market (for commercial and technical data). China apparently believes that, as long as it keeps denying any culpability, no harm will come to them. But many military Cyber War officials in Europe and the United States are urging that counterattacks be made. That may already be happening, but no one is going to talk about it openly.

[Iron Knight]

Smite Them! (*in loud paladin-like voice*)

Why is that stuff avialable on the net anyway. Some things should never be accessable from the net for many reasons like this.

[MarkG88]

And yet more cyber war and China commentary in an excellent article by the always interesting Austin Bay........

http://www.strategypage.com/on_point/20081103449.aspx

and a belated HAPPY NEW YEAR to the vbam forum crowd hehe.

-Mark

[MarkG88]

Here's recent strategypage.com article on information warfare, I thought it would segue nicely with this china/cyberwar thread I've been working on

-Mark

INFORMATION WARFARE: USAF Creates Cyber War Central


January 3, 2008: The U.S. Air Force is building a Cyber Control
System. This would be a hardware and software system that would enable the Air Force Cyberspace Command to monitor, in real time, the security state of all air force networks. If any of these networks were attacked, the Cyber Control System software would immediately alert Cyberspace Command controllers, and recommend a course of action. Think of this as a war room for Cyber War. Many people, deluged with TV and movie representations of high tech military command centers, believe such a Cyber War center already exists. It doesn’t, and the air force is building it. If the Cyber Control System can prove itself, the air force hopes to run the show for all Department of Defense networks.

The Department of Defense has 11 million Internet users, five million PCs and 12,000 networks, and is the largest Internet user on the planet. All the services are scrambling to get their Cyber War defenses strengthened. The U.S. Air Force is trying to establish itself as the primary Cyber War organization in the Department of Defense. To that end, it is also advocating more offensive Cyber War. Apparently there has already been some offensive operations, but no one is giving out any details about when, how, and who the target(s) were.

The air force has long been in the lead when it comes to Cyber War operations and security. So far, the other services have not regarded this as a call to compete. Everyone is scrambling to defend their networks, and if the air force can come up with better tools, everyone is eager to make use of them. The Cyber Control System, however, is different, in that it would be air force generals calling the shots, and determining how a Cyber War should be fought. This might cause some inter-service friction, but if the air force is able to demonstrate some real skill in this area, they will probably be allowed to run the show.

The air force plans to spend $27 million on the Cyber Control System over the next two years, phasing it in as parts of it become useful.

[Charles Lewis]

If the Cyber Control System can prove itself, the air force hopes to run the show for all Department of Defense networks.

This would be the primary reason. The Air Force is desperate to hang onto its budget share, and with the diminished role of the Air Force in the War on TerrorTM, I'm sure the senior AF brass is casting about for anything that could keep them in the game.

[MarkG88]

If the Cyber Control System can prove itself, the air force hopes to run the show for all Department of Defense networks.

This would be the primary reason. The Air Force is desperate to hang onto its budget share, and with the diminished role of the Air Force in the War on TerrorTM, I'm sure the senior AF brass is casting about for anything that could keep them in the game.

Of course it always comes down to budget nice use of "tm" on that "War On Terror" title btw hehe. The Air Force "lost" the battle over who controls UAVs so it is definitely looking to impress Congress and media anyway it can, and they've always be the military's "geek squad" anyhow so this is a natural segue. I just thought it was amusing that the $27 million is: 1. F-16, 2. 1/10 of an F-22 *shakes head*

[Iron Knight]

Why doesn't each force have their own UAVs? (sorry I'm not as connected to modern military news)

[MarkG88]

Why doesn't each force have their own UAVs? (sorry I'm not as connected to modern military news)

They do, that is part of the problem as far as Air Force is concerned. Makes things difficult for air traffic control over battle area. Army and Marines like having "instant" recon capability the small/micro UAVs provide, during Gulf War I nobody got the excellent spy satellite pics in a timely fashion so everyone likes the timely info provided by UAVs. Once they became armed and dangerous this makes them something of a "warplane" and this is where the Air Force gets fussy.

There was literally a summit meeting between the Air Force and Army brass in the 1950s to negotiate who could fly what: Air Force could fly anything, army could fly helicopters and some light fixed wing transports. UAVs make this "agreement" obsolete.

[echoco]

Cyberspace Command = airforce guys sitting infront of computers playing C&C?

$27 million for hardware only or everything including training?

I came to work 30 minutes late this morning becasue of delay in the subway due to some signal failour. While stuck in the subway car I was thinking is this one of China's cyber war effort/experiement, then I see this thread and it makes me even more paranoid.

China is also one of the countries allowed access to Micro$oft Windows source code. Isn't this handing a big juicey giant lump of meat right into the lion's mouth.

[MarkG88]

Cyberspace Command = airforce guys sitting infront of computers playing C&C?

$27 million for hardware only or everything including training?

I came to work 30 minutes late this morning becasue of delay in the subway due to some signal failour. While stuck in the subway car I was thinking is this one of China's cyber war effort/experiement, then I see this thread and it makes me even more paranoid.

China is also one of the countries allowed access to Micro$oft Windows source code. Isn't this handing a big juicey giant lump of meat right into the lion's mouth.

echoco,

Sorry for any induced paranoia! And yes indeed allowing China to have access to microsoft source code is a BAD IDEA TM especially since the Chinese government and military use linux.