Elite officer suggestions

[Charles Lewis]

I believe Rainer had an alternate XP system in the Companion that saw each ship and fighter flight earn XP on its own, and therefore progress on its own. It required close tracking of each ship, but it did deal with the issue of non-"sexy" ships getting passed over.

[Rainer]

Yes but it doesn't really solve the problems with the officers either.

One other thing that I've contemplated is to add a "bad or incompetent officer" for every good one that is created. So a super level 7 officer would lead to the creation of a something very bad for your empire. Naturally you wouldn't be able to shuffle these guys off to a remote posting either to get rid of the effects that way.

[Bandit]

I believe Rainer had an alternate XP system in the Companion that saw each ship and fighter flight earn XP on its own, and therefore progress on its own. It required close tracking of each ship, but it did deal with the issue of non-"sexy" ships getting passed over.

If you are refering to the Consortium game ... yeah there was a individual tracking of XP earned by ships and fighters. I personally find the system to be cumbersome and highly annoying to deal with.

But that was just me.

[Iron Knight]

Ya, its a great idea in a small campaign, like the WC game but for most games it is too detailed for large fleets.

I'm not sure if CR is a good price setter as that varies to much with lists and different factions (Master tacticians - command would make this more expensive). With the changes to the CSCR I'd think it would be worth considering a 'value stat' that determines the value of a unit that would be used to figure XP gained from combat and maybe the cost to upgrade it. I saw this problem again in my game with the rarity system making some units 2 EP more expensive for each faction. So why would oppponents get more experience from fighting rare units (the cost 2 more EP) than common ones, they are no stronger or better than the other.

Another example is if a 20 EP battleship fights an equally stat'ed 10 EP battleship from a more advanced empire the 20 EP battleship is treated as if it is some how bigger or better with the current XP equation.

A value stat would help balance xp gained in combat and then could be used to modify the price to upgrade a unit's experience level.

[Rainer]

I am not sure if we can agree on an objective value for every possible unit.

Perhaps the easiest solution really is to make crews levels cheaper for smaller units and more expensive for battleships.

[Bandit]

Perhaps the easiest solution really is to make crews levels cheaper for smaller units and more expensive for battleships.

That would most likely be a good route to go ... with the exception if rules to split crew levels to other ships come into play. I think one of the companions had the rule were you could take one elite unit and turn it into two lesser units. Simple solution ... the unit experience can only be split into two equally sized ships.

Just my two cents.

[Iron Knight]

I am not sure if we can agree on an objective value for every possible unit.

Perhaps the easiest solution really is to make crews levels cheaper for smaller units and more expensive for battleships.

Well, it could just be the sum of the stats divided by something for scale. It doesn't need to be something that has to be eyeball'd for each unit, that would be more work. A simple equation could be DV + AS + AF / 2 = VP. Veteran level could cost VP x 3, Elite x 4, Legendary x 5, or something similar.

What would determine size, would each unit have a unique size value, or just small, medium, or large?

[Charles Lewis]

Well, it could just be the sum of the stats divided by something for scale. It doesn't need to be something that has to be eyeball'd for each unit, that would be more work. A simple equation could be DV + AS + AF / 2 = VP. Veteran level could cost VP x 3, Elite x 4, Legendary x 5, or something similar.

What would determine size, would each unit have a unique size value, or just small, medium, or large?

Something along those lines would be pretty straightforward to implement and would be useable with any existing force list.

[MarkG88]

Well, it could just be the sum of the stats divided by something for scale. It doesn't need to be something that has to be eyeball'd for each unit, that would be more work. A simple equation could be DV + AS + AF / 2 = VP. Veteran level could cost VP x 3, Elite x 4, Legendary x 5, or something similar.

What would determine size, would each unit have a unique size value, or just small, medium, or large?

Something along those lines would be pretty straightforward to implement and would be useable with any existing force list.

I agree with Charlie and Garland on this approach.

[Bandit]

What would determine size, would each unit have a unique size value, or just small, medium, or large?

You would have to group ships by classification, I would go put all the destroyers in one grou (DD, DM, DC, HDD etc) in one size, all the gunboats in another, all the cruisers together (CA, CC, etc) and so on.

Apparently there is an exploit using specific rule combinations where you can train up a green gunboat to regular, split them crew into two novice crews and put the two new novice crews on green Battle Cruisers. It takes less time to train up your crews that way ... but only if you are using the wacky crew training rules.

[Rainer]

Well, it could just be the sum of the stats divided by something for scale. It doesn't need to be something that has to be eyeball'd for each unit, that would be more work. A simple equation could be DV + AS + AF / 2 = VP. Veteran level could cost VP x 3, Elite x 4, Legendary x 5, or something similar.

How would you rate/add traits?

What would determine size, would each unit have a unique size value, or just small, medium, or large?

I'd probably go with unit designation since that usually is a good indicator. A sucky CA is still is a CA and needs a relatively large crew.

Apparently there is an exploit using specific rule combinations where you can train up a green gunboat to regular, split them crew into two novice crews and put the two new novice crews on green Battle Cruisers. It takes less time to train up your crews that way ... but only if you are using the wacky crew training rules.

That loophole really needs to be closed. The rule should be amended so that you can put your split crews only on vessels smaller than the original one.

[Iron Knight]

How would you rate/add traits?

+3 for scout +1 for split up scout funtions. Most others aren't imporatant enough to rate, but if they are a +1 is likely ok.

I'd probably go with unit designation since that usually is a good indicator. A sucky CA is still is a CA and needs a relatively large crew.

That's not always true though, there are large DDs and small CAs that might blurr the lines. Many si-fi setting have problems with that (the tiny hyperion in B5). Those in between units (heavy DD's, CL's) might suffer (or benifit) if there isn't a modifer for them.

[Bandit]

In my experience the ships that see XP upgrades are always the ones in a position of squadron command. Why? Simply the +1 to CR is too good to not put it on a command vessel. You could place another ship in the open slot. Often these upgraded ships also are the ones to carry the elite officers.

Unless a CM incorporates some random forced XP upgrades of units, or the cost for upgrading smaller units be lowered I don't see this trend to change.

On the other hand, it is rare I see players upgrade many of thier ships in this fashion. Most are pouring points into elite officers. Given that trend, it may be a more prudent move to simply remove the ability to upgrade units all togther ... beyond regular.

Perhaps have ships gain vetern or elite status through a random event, though I am not sure I like that either.

Just some ideas from left field.