PTO Plane List

[Charles Lewis]

BTW it should be B5N2 Kate.

That was just a typo as I was entering the list.

[Rainer]

If you need any technical data, let me know. Or perhaps you could trick the guys from that other game to do the conversion for you.

[Charles Lewis]

The game has long been OOP, and IIRC, the forums connected to the game haven't seen a lot of traffic lately either. I'm not complaining, though, as it did give me a baseline of about 180+ aircraft. Even if I didn't any add more on top of that, that's not too shabby.

[Charles Lewis]

One of ideas this conversation has given me is a notion of doing some add-on plane packs after MTO, PTO, and ETO are done. I might be persuaded to do packs that would 1944 and 1945 aircraft for those who just don't want to stop. We'll see. Lots to do between now and then.

[Charles Lewis]

As an example of what I need to be able to add an aircraft, I was able to find enough on Wikipedia to add the A6M3 "Hamp" (which was redesignated when they figured out it was new version of the Zero).

The entry on wikipedia had this paragraph:

The wing changes had much greater effects on performance than expected. The smaller size led to better roll, and their lower drag allowed the diving speed to be increased to 360 knots (670 km/h). On the downside, maneuverability was reduced, and range suffered due to both decreased lift and the smaller fuel tank. Pilots complained about both. The shorter range proved a significant limitation during the Solomons campaign of 1942.

I've bolded the key elements - from those, and by comparing the stats of the A6M2 and the A6M5 I reduced range to 24, improved Evasive to +2, reduced Maneuverability to 0, and raised Dive to +1 compared to the A6M2.

The result is a plane costs 1 point more than the A6M2 (thanks to the increased Evasive - the rest of the stat changes were a trade-off). For some, the reduced range may be an issue, but probably not as much as the loss of Maneuverability. Still and all, MAS is all about choice.

[Rainer]

The basic A6M3 also was not carrier-capable. Only the A6M3a version introduced in late 42 had that ability (among other changes).

[echoco]

Not sure if you want to add the FM-2 Wildcat, there were some differences to the F3F-3 most noticeable was longer range.

[Charles Lewis]

Not sure if you want to add the FM-2 Wildcat, there were some differences to the F3F-3 most noticeable was longer range.

According to my research, FM-2 was a GM version of the F4F based on the "-8" prototype. At this point, the Corsair and Hellcat had pretty much taken over fleet carrier duty, but the Wildcats were still being used on escort carriers where the smaller size of the Wildcat was an asset.

According to performance data, there was neglible difference in actual performance between the FM-2 and the F4F-4 - the primary difference was that the FM-2 was lighter. I'm looking into the F3F (the last biplane fighter of the Navy).

[echoco]

sorry typo, I meant FM-2 = F4F-3

[Charles Lewis]

At this point, I've removed 1 plane (B-26G didn't enter service until after 1943 - I had an incorrect date on my list) and have added 10 planes:

H6K4 Mavis
F1M1 Pete
A6M3 Hamp
B-10 (export version to the Dutch was the Martin 139)
CW-21B
B-18
OS2U Kingfisher
SOC-3 Seagull
F4U-1 Corsair
F4F-3 Wildcat

Of the other reqeusted aircraft, the A7M2 Reppu, Ki-67 Peggy, P1Y Frances, Ki-84 Frank, A26B Invader, and B29 are all after the 1943 cutoff.

The Brewster 339D is already present in the F2A Buffalo. At this time, I can't find sufficient data for the Vildebeest, but even if I did, it would get pushed off to ETO, when I can pull in additional Commonwealth aircraft. The Whirlwind will probably show up in ETO, as well.

The Black Widow in any incarnation will not be included as I'm not doing nightfighters. Those engagements were completely different from daytime engagements, and at this point, that's not something I want to try and tackle.

I'm still working on the Japanese Army bombers. Since we are now at 76 aircraft before those bombers, we're likely to push 80 aircraft, and at about 45 minutes a plane sheet (thanks to those lovely 3-view silhouettes) that's quite a bit of time. That ought to keep me off the streets for a while.

[MarkG88]

At this point, I've removed 1 plane (B-26G didn't enter service until after 1943 - I had an incorrect date on my list) and have added 10 planes:

H6K4 Mavis
F1M1 Pete
A6M3 Hamp
B-10 (export version to the Dutch was the Martin 139)
CW-21B
B-18
OS2U Kingfisher
SOC-3 Seagull
F4U-1 Corsair
F4F-3 Wildcat

Of the other reqeusted aircraft, the A7M2 Reppu, Ki-67 Peggy, P1Y Frances, Ki-84 Frank, A26B Invader, and B29 are all after the 1943 cutoff.

The Brewster 339D is already present in the F2A Buffalo. At this time, I can't find sufficient data for the Vildebeest, but even if I did, it would get pushed off to ETO, when I can pull in additional Commonwealth aircraft. The Whirlwind will probably show up in ETO, as well.

The Black Widow in any incarnation will not be included as I'm not doing nightfighters. Those engagements were completely different from daytime engagements, and at this point, that's not something I want to try and tackle.

I'm still working on the Japanese Army bombers. Since we are now at 76 aircraft before those bombers, we're likely to push 80 aircraft, and at about 45 minutes a plane sheet (thanks to those lovely 3-view silhouettes) that's quite a bit of time. That ought to keep me off the streets for a while.

Nice list Charlie, fantastic research job! I'm really looking forward to this addtion to the MAS family.

[echoco]

Because I'm persistent

From
http://www.vectorsite.net/avwcat.html

The FM-2 wasn't much faster than its predecessors, but it had a much superior rate of climb and a higher ceiling, though since it used a single-stage supercharger its performance degraded seriously at high altitudes. It was also more agile and had longer range; pilots generally regarded as a fairly peppy little aircraft.

from
http://rwebs.net/dispatch/output.asp?ArticleID=22
FM-2 vs the Zero paragraph (A6M5)

"That either surprised or made the Zero lead really mad, because he did the tightest turn I've ever seen to try to get on me. Bit I also pulled up into a tight climbing left turn into him, and he missed his shot behind me. The FM-2's tight turn must have surprised him because I got around quickly on him into a head-on, and put a fast burst into his engine. That really made him mad, because he quickly pulled into me in what I thought was an attempt to ram. I had also pulled up hard to avoid him; it was a close thing."

(doesn't mean its more/as maneuverable as a zero just more so than other wildcats)

but it also says

"The FM-2 replaced the FM-1 on the assembly lines at the Linden, N.J. plant, the first being delivered to the U.S. Navy in September 1943.

During 1944, the FM-2 replaced earlier Wildcats aboard the escort carriers, but it was not until U.S. forces returned to the Philippines in October of that year, that the "Wilder Wildcats" saw combat in large numbers."

so didn't make the '43 cut off

[Charles Lewis]

The fact that the first FM-2s were delivered in 1943 means it would make the cutoff. Thanks for those links. I basically had the FM-2 done, but currently it really wasn't any different. With the new info you've found, I think I can make a few tweaks to make it a viable addition to the list.

[Charles Lewis]

Nice list Charlie, fantastic research job! I'm really looking forward to this addtion to the MAS family.

Thanks. Most of the new additions were already half done, and just needed a little digging to fill in the blanks. I focused originally on those planes I had Air Force data sheets for and the other performance data I needed to complete a stat block. While I have no intention of including every little variation of every air frame, I do want to include all the major types. That's why I posted the list - to see where interest might lie, as well as highlight oversights (like the Corsair).

Let me just add that it was a painful decision early in MTO development when I cut the night fighters, because I knew then that would mean cutting the P-61 - my personal favorite warbird of WWII. But like I said before, night fighing was a completely different environment, and one that isn't really compatible with the WWII-MAS style.

[echoco]

Found a little more info, though might not be credible, both are from BB forums.

From a flight sim
http://svsl1.hitechcreations.com/smf/in ... 944.0.html

"SpitVs, Seafires and SpitIXs are in deep bandini should their pilots elect to turnfight the FM-2. Indeed, anyone flying a Hurricane IIC quickly learns that even though their Hizooka armed fighter can handle Spitfires, it cannot handle the FM-2"

From The Miniature Page forum
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=74718

"My father served in the USN as a carrier pilot in WWII. He flew just about all the different planes – Dauntless, Avenger, Helldiver, Hellcat, and the various marks of Wildcats. He maintains thew General Motors Wildcat, FM-2, was the best and most maneuverable of the Navy's WWII fighters."


I'm inclined to believe that the Wildcats were as/more maneuverable than F4U and F6F from other stuff I've read.

Also found this about the P-36 hawk

--In a 1995 interview with World War II magazine, expatriate Czech pilot Frantisek Perina recalled the Hawk's outstanding maneuverability. It could "outmaneuver any German aircraft. If one got on your tail in one 360-degree turn you were behind him." Perina regarded the Hawk as superior to the Hurricane, which he felt was heavier on the controls.--

from
http://curtisshawk75.bravepages.com/