Federation Admiral Public Update

[Tyrel Lohr]

It looks that way, which then begs the interesting question of whether or not to revise FA to bring it back into line with 2e? I know FA drove a lot of the thinking for 2e but there are bound to be some instances where the two are now out of step.

The two are basically entirely different beasts at this point in time, owing no small favor to the fact that Jay wrote FA and I am writing 2E (albeit at a rate slower than molasses, some would contend). There were quite a few things that Jay did in FA to tailor the game to the Star Fleet Universe that wouldn't work in a more generic rule setting.

However, might that be an opportunity to revise the layout for FA at the same time to make it more palatable to SVC? The Klingon Armada product would undoubtedly be a useful template for an insight into ADB's collective mind as to what makes a 3rd party product nice to read (in my view, the bits added by ADB are the weak and jarring points in an otherwise cool product but, hey, they're the publishers and it's their call as to what's good or not).

I think any wholesale rewrites would probably have to wait until ADB had a chance to tell us point blank what they want or need changed to be happy with the book. Once Jay has that in hand, then we can probably take a look and see what needs to be done and what we can do to streamline or otherwise tighten up the rules and text to accommodate those requests.

Back to the VBAM salt mines!

-Tyrel

[Ken Burnside]

Let's look at some history here.

The Vudar were first turned in in 1989. Published in 2004.

Campaign Designer's Handbook was done without ADB's input, or with minimal input.

Omega was first turned in in 1994. Published in 1996, but was largely a hands-off affair, and mostly negotiated through Task Force .

LMC was turned in (the first time) in 1993. Got my first set of feedback on it in 1996. ADB went dormant from '96 to '99. Product remained in slow simmer on my end for that span. SSDs turned in in 2000. Finally published in 2005.

Klingon Armada was turned in in 2008. Published in 2009. It represents the land-speed record for an outside author getting a game through ADB. It was also a product that ADB understood. It took minimal proofreading from ADB's perspective to make it 'work', because Steve looked at the game, decided it was so simple it couldn't be messed up, and treated the ship sheets as black boxes.

You guys are at least sorta, kinda on a schedule somewhere, and have a complete product written, which puts you ahead of the general curve...but navigating ADB's product pipeline is a challenge.

PD Feds and PD Tholians have been waiting for longer than you guys have.

Some advice:

A) Page Layout:

1) Ask Steve to send you a page maker file formatted his way, assuming you have something that can open it.
2) Pour your text into that.
3) Send it back to him as a PDF.
4) Send him an MS Word (3003 or earlier) format document with all the text in it as well.

It's not that Steve's ideas for page layout are better than yours. (I've seen VBAM and like its layout a lot). It's that Steve wants things done His Way, and you're appealing to his comfort zone.

B) Scope of the Project

The Fed Adm. rules are probably 35 pages laid out your way, and maybe 30 pages laid out Steve's way. The remaining 170 pages are mission tables and the like.

However, what Steve probably thought he was buying into was "35 page product with maybe 12-13 pages of tables". Or, at usual proofreading pace, about a week's worth or work. Every page with a table you add means it's another page he has to look at the table, figure out what the values in the table mean, compare them to the rulebook and see if they're right. Which is a lot more work, and something he can't delegate.

All of this should be taken with a grain of salt. I've gone through this process before. I told Steve that if he could go get Starmada, he should, and I think I recommended VBAM to him in that same time frame (March 2006). I am, however, the designer of a game that he can only comment on as being "3D and therefore 27 times as complex as SFB."

[Shadow Warrior]

Thanks for the excellent insight into the ADB way of doing things, Ken.

Given what you have outlined, and seeing what else is on the "to do" list, it's hard to see ADB finding the time to even look at FA this side of Origins, never mind the previously touted "Spring 2010" for publication.

[Emiricol]

Will there be a general VBAM add-on based on this? I'm especially interested in the side missions aspect (send scout factors here. Send special forces there. Sent medical bays to this other planet. And so on.) The part about border tensions could really be awesome too if it could tie into the NPE rules. It sounds like a lot of creativity went into it that might also be good as a VBAM-generic product.

Understandably, it would probably have to wait until 2E comes out, but I really hope you'll consider this.

[Charles Lewis]

It is extremely likely that Jay's work for missions and "local" campaign model will get ported over to VBAM. Too much good stuff there not to!

[mwaschak]

I think it is fair to say Charlie is right. When we started with 2E Tyrel and I discussed this at length and both believe it would be easily portable. I would probably need to rewrite most of the minor objectives for a more generic setting, and expand the major objectives for more variety.

I am probably going to ask SVC if removing the Local Campaign system entirely would expedite FA. It, and its tables (as pointed out earlier in this thread), are the bulk of FA.

-Jay

It is extremely likely that Jay's work for missions and "local" campaign model will get ported over to VBAM. Too much good stuff there not to!

[Shadow Warrior]

Slipped from "Spring" to "Post-Origins".

OTHER PRODUCTS FOR 2010, DATA TO BE DETERMINED
SFB Module C3A Andromedan Threat File, SKU TBA, $TBA
Borders of Madness #1
FC Booster Pack #93, #94, #95
Captain's Log #42, SKU 5742, $19.95
Communique #49-#60, free downloads on website
Battlestations Star Fleet
Star Fleet Assault, Fall release
Romulans PD20M, SKU 8734, $24.95
Prime Directive Federation (GURPS, d20M)
Federation Commander Briefing #3, SKU 4023, $TBA
Federation Admiral, data to be determined

Definitely not this side of Origins and looking at everything else on the list of post-Origins projects, probably doubtful for this year.

I fear that given SVC's publically expressed antipathy to FA he will always be able to find "something else to do" and we are looking at Vudar type release lead times (years).

[Gareth_Perkins]

I am probably going to ask SVC if removing the Local Campaign system entirely would expedite FA. It, and its tables (as pointed out earlier in this thread), are the bulk of FA.

Kind of ironic that they're the most interesting bit!

[mwaschak]

I agree. I find that when I play FA to this day we always use the Local Campaign rules with the objective system. It just adds the "how, when, and why" that a ship, even a bad one, is out there with a real job to do.

But FA wrapped up well over a year ago and really no end in sight. I am not sure if releasing some of it is better than all of it at some unknown future date.

Kind of ironic that they're the most interesting bit!

[Shadow Warrior]

Might work. That's what happened with the ADB version of Starmada after all, which went from proposal to published in record time. The ADB release was just the bare minimum necessary to play the game plus the Star Fleet Universe feel bit (basic rules plus some ship stats). All the options were released in two other books with no Star Fleet Universe branding at all.

This is an approach that may pay dividends with FA.

[gambler]

Ugh. The part that's being proposed to be removed is just the part I'm the most interested in.

Still would probably buy it though.

[mwaschak]

I can discuss it with him. If it won't speed things up we can just leave it in.

In the mean time I will get thinking on missions for 2E.

-Jay

Ugh. The part that's being proposed to be removed is just the part I'm the most interested in.

Still would probably buy it though.

[Shadow Warrior]

Yeah, I'm thinking following the Klingon Armada (the SFU version of Starmada) approach is the only way to go. I seriously doubt we will ever see FA published in its current form (and I do mean ever).

The only SFU branded bit of the Starmada project was the basic rulebook, the bit called Klingon Armada. It was the absolute bare minimum necessary to play the game plus the stats for the ships in FC: Klingon Border (those and those alone) and references to other Starmada (note, not Klingon Armada) products with extra rules you might like to try. This approach has great appeal for SVC because:

- minimum number of pages to review, edit, layout, etc
- clear tie in to FC: KB (the whole point)
- is another way to leverage the sales of the pre-boxed squadron miniatures (the big money earner for ADB).

All the other rules, he doesn't give a fig about because all he's doing is printing them under contract and sending them into distribution. They're not SFU branded, heck they're not even ADB branded, they're just Starmada products he happens to print.

The same approach for FA would work. The local campaign system (for instance) would just become a separate VBAM book that ADB just happens to print. Released at the same time, but with no SFU branding, just a mention in the core FA rulebook that this product exists and has cool rules in it you will useful to enhance your FA game with.

[gambler]

Hewwo? Status pwease...

[mwaschak]

Hewwo? Status pwease...

Hello,

I have no idea unfortunately. I will probably see them at Origins one day this year and could probably ask again then. I am sorry it is not better news, but I believe FA was pushed back behind this new ground combat game of theirs.

-Jay