MAS- tell me about it

Discuss the tactics and strategy of operating your own personal mercenary air squadron. Pilots, to your planes!
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wminsing
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MAS- tell me about it

Post by wminsing »

So I've read the MAS entries on the VBAM blog, and the game has piqued by interest, since I've been considering getting into air warfare gaming for the last few months (I blame that Dogfights! show on the history channel). My understanding is that it's set in the near future, with an Area 88/UN Squadron 'feel' to it, and has both a tactical component and a campaign system. How suitable would it be for 'real' air combat?

I was wondering if I get a brief overview of the rules, and is stuff like is altitude, ground attack, and so on included? How detailed are the rules in general? Is it played on a hex map, and are miniatures possible?

I've also read there will be a WWII module, which I would be very interested in, though not strictly for WWII. I'm a huge fan of the old Crimson Skies setting from FASA, but found the rules system too slow and clunky. For some time I've been considering converting over to a historical WWII rules set to play out CS dogfights, but MAS might fit the bill better (particulary if I can import missiles and so on back into the WWII module). Besides, 'mercenary air squadrons' is what CS was really all about. :lol:

This leads to my last question- will it be possible to 'import' aircraft into MAS with a conversion system? Could I take a real aircraft, plug in the relevant numbers, and get the MAS stats, or least a approximiation that I could then tweak? For CS I'd have to extrapolate the real numbers from the original stats, but a lot (top speed, etc) are already defined and the others aren't that hard to figure out.

I will have more questions later, but that's a start. Thanks in advance.

-Will
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Post by Charles Lewis »

MAS is primarily a squadron management game. Your primary objective is manage your resources so that you have the means (aircraft, ordnance and pilots) to complete missions, which gets you more money, etc. There is also a light roleplaying element as your pilots gain experience, you choose where to improve their skills.

There is a combat game within the system, but at best, I'd call it "combat light". It abstracted sufficiently that most engagements are resolved in minutes and an entire mission within 30 minutes (assuming all are present). There is a engagement map that shows relative positions, and miniatures could be used in place of tokens to show what planes are where, but it is by no means a miniatures game nor is it a detailed combat sim; I'd call it more of a narrative combat system.

That said, it is our opinion that it does a pretty good job of capturing the "feel" of aerial combat, and to a certain extent, ground attack, as well.

As for conversions, that's a bit tricky. Jay handled the stats for MAS, but I can speak for the WWII conversions. Some of the stats are objective, such as altitude, range, ordnance limits, and so forth. Others, like maneuverability, are far more subjective. In both cases, planes are compared to each other to help determine some of those stats.

Because of the interrelational aspect of the conversions, it's not like VBAM where you could theoretically have ships from anywhere in the same game. Because the stat range is limited (generally -2 to +3), the planes from the WWII expansion are not at compatible with the planes from the modern base MAS set.

Now to be honest, I found it's not that hard to setup a conversion. For the WWII stuff, I built a spreadsheet and plugged in real numbers for stuff like number built, max altitude, speed, etc. I used Avalon Hill's Air Force for the more subjective stats like Climb, Dive, Maneuver, Evasion, Damage Modifier, and so forth. Then when I had most of the planes I wanted to include and could find all the necessary info for, I started breaking real stats into ranges to determine where the cutoffs would be for the various altitude bands, speed modifiers, and so on. Whenever another plane needs to be added that gives me the guidelines on how it fits in.

For the purposes of another system to run Crimson Skies dogfights, all I can say is maybe. It depends on whether you want to make all the crunchy decisions, the MAS or MAS-WWII would not fit the bill. If you aren't as concerned with the crunchy details but still want some decision making with a fair potential for excitement, then the MAS system might suit your needs.

Be sure to look at the various promo sheets that are over on the website. That should at least give you a feel for the level of detail (or lack thereof) in the MAS system. And certainly feel free to post any more questions you might have! :)
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Post by wminsing »

I appreciate the run down. At the moment it sounds like MAS is not quite what I'm looking for in terms of an air combat game (either CS stand-in or real life air combat), I am in the market for something a bit 'crunchier'. However, the campaign system still sounds neat- would it be possible to 'drop in' another tactical game for actually resolving the battles? So generate the encounter in MAS, play it out in Air War C:21 (or some other rules system) and then work out what happens next in MAS?

On the other hand, I've always wanted to run a Crimson Skies RPG, and from the sound of it, the MAS tactical system might just fit the bill for that perfectly. That's what originally got me looking at alternate tactical systems in the first place, since my first attempt to run a campaign (using DP9's Silhouette system for ground action) died after the first air battle. It took so long to resolve that the players and I agreed that the campaign was just not feasible. If a battle can be resolved in 30 minutes that would just right for an encounter in an RPG. Could you shed a little light on how pilot skills work in MAS?

As for conversions, that sounds to be about the level of work I expected. If there are enough example planes I suspect I could fit in new planes (both CS and real life) without too much difficulty, simply by comparison (does the J-2 Fury outturn a Razorback? Can it outturn a Mustang?). For CS I'll simply have to assign data that feels right to some of the stats (Climb and Dive, for example, since there was no altitude in CS!).

Thanks for the info so far!

-Will
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Post by Charles Lewis »

There's no reason you couldn't use a tactical game to resolve the combats, but it is not designed for that (unlike VBAM). The trick would be meshing the pilot skills and unique traits with the other game.

Each pilot has skills that affect various actions in the game. Initiative, Climb, Evasive, Maneuver, Dive, Afterburner, Cannons, AtA (Radar), AtA (IR), AtG (Unguided) and AtG (Guided) are the skills. Some of those skills overlap with plane attributes (maneuver, for example) and together modify a pilot's die roll to accomplish a task.

Some of the unique traits found in the game include Conservationist - the pilot doesn't need to get paid, or Steady (AtA) - the pilot can reroll any one air attack roll per mission. Those would be easy enough to deal with, but others like RADAR Weapon Preference, which allows a pilot a +3 to hit for one weapon launch per mission, might be harder to integrate.
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Post by mwaschak »

wminsing wrote:As for conversions, that sounds to be about the level of work I expected. If there are enough example planes I suspect I could fit in new planes (both CS and real life) without too much difficulty, simply by comparison (does the J-2 Fury outturn a Razorback? Can it outturn a Mustang?). For CS I'll simply have to assign data that feels right to some of the stats (Climb and Dive, for example, since there was no altitude in CS!).

Thanks for the info so far!

-Will
Hi Guys,

For me I started it what I considered to be low, baseline planes, and then found their real world strengths and weaknessnes. It gave me a great starting point for figuring cost (numbers made vs real cost, reliability and after market), and then the rest of the stats fell into place.

It is scaled to the era it is played. So I would not recommend taking an F-4 against a FW-190 because Charlie's WWII conversions are built for that era, while the F-4 is built for MAS proper. I am hopeful to have the finished product ready soon so we can post the demo material.

I have been meaning to buy some aircraft minis to paint in squadron colors (Wicker Vengeance, Fire Raptors, DSP, and Die Raubvögel). Most are made in England, and the conversion rate is kinda bad and the shipping cost worse.

-Jay
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Post by wminsing »

There's no reason you couldn't use a tactical game to resolve the combats, but it is not designed for that (unlike VBAM). The trick would be meshing the pilot skills and unique traits with the other game.
Good point, I would need to review a couple of rules sets to see if the pilot system could be adapted.
Each pilot has skills that affect various actions in the game. Initiative, Climb, Evasive, Maneuver, Dive, Afterburner, Cannons, AtA (Radar), AtA (IR), AtG (Unguided) and AtG (Guided) are the skills. Some of those skills overlap with plane attributes (maneuver, for example) and together modify a pilot's die roll to accomplish a task.
Sounds good. So basically for check it would be die roll + skill + plane stat (if applicable) = result? Also, which dice (d6, d10, more then one type) does the game use?
Some of the unique traits found in the game include Conservationist - the pilot doesn't need to get paid, or Steady (AtA) - the pilot can reroll any one air attack roll per mission. Those would be easy enough to deal with, but others like RADAR Weapon Preference, which allows a pilot a +3 to hit for one weapon launch per mission, might be harder to integrate.
Sounds like an extensive list of traits, which would be good from an RPG-intergration perspective, allows each player to have a very different pilot. As you mentioned, makes things a little tricker from the wargame perspective.


It is scaled to the era it is played. So I would not recommend taking an F-4 against a FW-190 because Charlie's WWII conversions are built for that era, while the F-4 is built for MAS proper. I am hopeful to have the finished product ready soon so we can post the demo material.
Right. I wasn't planning on mixing eras per se, but if I was doing a CS campaign then some of the rules from MAS-modern would be useful, even if the basic game is MAS-WWII.
I have been meaning to buy some aircraft minis to paint in squadron colors (Wicker Vengeance, Fire Raptors, DSP, and Die Raubvögel). Most are made in England, and the conversion rate is kinda bad and the shipping cost worse.
I will see if I can find some information on state-side aircraft miniatures for you. I know there are a couple of options, since I looked into this a few months ago when I started thinking about getting into air-gaming.

-Will
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Post by mwaschak »

wminsing wrote: Sounds good. So basically for check it would be die roll + skill + plane stat (if applicable) = result? Also, which dice (d6, d10, more then one type) does the game use?
A d20 is used for the Unique Attributes, but all in all it is the d6 for engagements, and d10s for firing.
Sounds like an extensive list of traits, which would be good from an RPG-intergration perspective, allows each player to have a very different pilot. As you mentioned, makes things a little tricker from the wargame perspective.
We have a hundred in the basic set, with more in the expansions. It is the little things that set apart the PC from the NPC. So you may have a new green pilot on par with another enemy green pilot. It may be his "slick" or "eccentric" nature that gets him in or out of trouble.
I will see if I can find some information on state-side aircraft miniatures for you. I know there are a couple of options, since I looked into this a few months ago when I started thinking about getting into air-gaming.
Please let me know :) . I have been itching to fly the squadron colors!

-Jay
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Post by wminsing »

A d20 is used for the Unique Attributes, but all in all it is the d6 for engagements, and d10s for firing.
Ok, I think I have it.
We have a hundred in the basic set, with more in the expansions. It is the little things that set apart the PC from the NPC. So you may have a new green pilot on par with another enemy green pilot. It may be his "slick" or "eccentric" nature that gets him in or out of trouble.
Wow, that's an even more extensive list then I was expecting. Sounds excellent from a role-playing perspective.
Please let me know. I have been itching to fly the squadron colors!
Brookhurst Hobbies carries the 'Vapor Trails' range from Tumbling Dice- 1/600th minies, both WWII and post-War. I'll keep looking for others.

-Will
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Post by mwaschak »

Thanks William.

From the player's perspective the 100 skills are broken into several categories, like AtG or Leadership. It is easy to track the one or two the characters start with IMHO.

I appreciate the plane tip. I will check those out.

-Jay
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