Single Squadron Task Forces

[BroAdso]

Finished the gigantic battle! Made a few technical errors (forgot to reduce some formation levels during fighter attacks here and there). I'll come back through after work some time and write in some narration for the rounds, but here's the image version.

Round 1:


Round 2:


Round 3:


Round 4:


Round 5:


Round 6:


Round 7:


Sadly, we didn't finish round 8.

This battle and one smaller one led to my third and further improved draft of the single-squadron system. and a blank battle round record sheet to use for running battles under this third draft system:

BlankRoundSheet.pdf

(385.09 KiB) Downloaded 248 times

. I have enabled public commenting on the Google Doc for the rules, so by all means tell me how to improve, everyone.

Some of the most important changes in the newest one revolve around improving order of operations during big battles, the right 'costs' for the Scout economy, and damage assignment models.

Order of operations has been clarified as we were discussing, so that exclusion and inclusion happens first. I also clarified things like what happens when you exclude a ship whose Scout functions are being used to exclude your own ships.

In particular, all Scout missions except raising or lowering formation level now cost the CC of their target - I saw the Dominion in the practice battle over-use a mere two Scout functions to double their Hydra DN for a whole 14 additional AS in many rounds. There are basically no better ways to use two scout functions if you have a big ship, and when there's no meaningful choices, things are boring.

I am tinkering with a new damage resolution system. I'm a fan of keeping track of ships round to round beyond just Operational/Crippled/Destroyed, but I've found in big battles that it is too easy for undirected damage to become worthless as a player can just spread it out with 1-2 points on the biggest ships at a time. I set up a minimum damage assignment value of 1+CC of the ship. This way, when assigning undirected damage, the player who is damaged can choose to spread out the damage and we can keep track round to round of damage other than crippling, but undirected damage still has a chance to do significant harm.

Sorry about any lack of detail or poor grammar above - trying to post these thoughts quickly during a busy week.

[Tyrel Lohr]

What an absolutely brutal battle! The Federation really needed to crack those Dominion battleships, but it just didn't happen despite a good showing that one round. The Hydra's high DV plus their Tender ability to bring in smaller ships really gave the Dominion an upperhand. The Federation still managed to clear out a lot of the escorts, but it's hard to make headway.

I have been using the rule that you have to pay CC of the target for all of the core special missions, even raising/lowering formations, as that advantage scales with the size of the unit, too. I also have kept Defensive as only benefiting the ship that is going Defensive, which also scales well with the ship vs. the +1 Guardian solution you're testing.

The cost of the missions seem about right at that point, using the target's CC. That also has the advantage of strictly limiting just how much a flagship can accomplish via missions each round.

I think forcing the crippled/destroyed breakpoint is about the only way to control the undirected damage. The only other option for you is to keep using your attrition/partial damage, but have any ship with partial damage auto cripple/destroy at the end of the battle. But in practice the more finite damage states are easier to track. I added the attrition damage to the 1E CSCR Skirmish rules because I was fighting very small battles (a few squadrons per side max) and wanted more granularity, and it works, but I've since shifted back to favoring simplicity. The leftover damage mechanic also is balancing larger ships nicely, which I'm enjoying.

I'll look over your doc and leave comments where I can think of them. I am still quite liking the flow of the battles, and they seem both more meaningful and more interesting than just throwing two huge stacks at each other.

[BroAdso]

I'm working on that 20-ship versus 20-ship CL led battle you mentioned as a good test of the CR and CP in the new system.

To do it, I'm using this newly clarified version of the Single-Squadron CSCR. When I ran through the first few rounds using the Single-Squadron as written, the number of flights was just too low when they took up a "slot" in my task forces just like a ship, and using Directed Damage to crush flagships too easy because even when on Defense, their Formation only went to 2.

This is the Task Force I was using to test with:



So here's the most recent variation on Single-Squadron task forces, please critique away:

Before the battle, establish the Task Force:

1. Task Force

The Task Force includes the Flagship (the highest CR non-crippled ship or base) and a number of additional ships or flights equal to the Flagship's CR. The Task Force may also include a number additional flights equal to the total CV of all ships in the Task Force (not Reserves).

Each battle round consists of the following steps:

1. Include/Exclude

Players may add additional ships or flights from Reserve to this round of combat or keep them out of this round by spending Intel and Scouts. A ship costs a number of Intel points (or Scout functions) equal to its Command Cost to include or exclude, and flights cost their DV. Civilian units have an effective CC of 1 for this purpose.

2. Flight Assignment

Players assign which of their flights are staying with their task force this round and which flights are attacking the enemy task force.

3. Missions

Ships and flights may be sent on missions. A player has a number of points equal to their Command Rating to do so. Players with ships that have the Carrier ability in their task force get extra points equal to the Carrier's Command Cost. Ships cost their Command Cost to send on a mission, and fighters cost their DV to send on a mission.

Available missions are:
Anti-Ship: add 1/2 AF to AS, effectively 0 AF this round
Anti-Flight: add 1/2 AS to AF, effectively 0 AS this round
Defensive: adds one Guard function for use in the EW phase, AS and AF effectively halved this round
Disruption: adds one Disruption function for use in the EW phase, AS and AF effectively halved this round.
Scout: adds one Scout function for use in the EW phase, AS and AF effectively 0 this round.
Retreat: the ship's may be removed from the Task Force and Reserves and moved to an adjacent friendly system at the end of this round. AS and AF effectively 0 this round.

4. EW/Tactical Phase

Players assign their Defensive, Disruptor, and Scout functions. Defensive and Disruptor functions may raise and lower the Formation level of ships, requiring a number of functions equal to the ship's CC to raise or lower its Formation one level. Scout functions may be used to raise or lower Formation levels eactly like Defensive and Disruptor functions. They may also be used to double the AS and AF of a friendly ship or halve the AS and AF of an enemy for a number of Scout functions equal to the ship's CC.

5. Fire Phases
Fire phases proceed as normal. Note that this includes flights crippling and being damaged just like ships.

6. Retreats, Flag Assignments, and Reinforcements

If the player's flagship was destroyed or crippled, the flag moves automatically to the next highest CR ship available. If this ship is in Reserves, it is automatically moved into the Task Force and the player may make no further movements from Reserves to Task Force this round.

Players may move ships and flights from their Task Force to Reserves and vice versa. They have a pool of points to do this equal to their flagship's CR. A ship costs its CC to move to or from reserves, and a flight costs its DV to move to or from reserves. The total number of ships and flights in the task force must obey the rules established in (1).

[Tyrel Lohr]

Players may move ships and flights from their Task Force to Reserves and vice versa. They have a pool of points to do this equal to their flagship's CR. A ship costs its CC to move to or from reserves, and a flight costs its DV to move to or from reserves. The total number of ships and flights in the task force must obey the rules established in (1).

I tried this in the 20 v 20 CL battle test I'm doing, and I think I encountered a bug. If the flagship has to spend CR to move both in and out of the task force, then a player can play the classic came of stuffing the reinforcements to keep them from taking damage. My overkill rule addresses this somewhat, but this has historically been a problem when players can design their own ships and try to game the system.

In my previous tests I was using flagship CR to move ships out, but then you can always fill in from your reinforcements to keep your fleet near full strength.

I'll keep doing some more testing, and having 20 ships of the same class is kind of a deceptive situation because I don't think we'd encounter that very often. My ships also still have lower CR because that is what I have been used to for so long. Now, though, I am finding that CR is potentially more useful because if a ship of that class is a flagship you really want to bring in as much ships as you possibly can!

I'm also running into the same situation as with the battleships where the leftover damage rule is quite effective at scoring extra damage against targets. Rereading where I got that rule from, I think I was combining the 1E base damage leftover rule with the ship damage rule. There the leftover damage actually has to be > 1/2 DV, not >= 1/2 DV. I think the > 1/2 DV is probably better, as that helps moderate the pain for some of these ships.

Right now I'm starting round 4 of 8 in a Deep Space battle between 20 Constitution CL and 20 D7 K't'agga CL. The ships have matched stats except that the Connie has DV 6 / AS 5 whereas the D7 has DV 5 / AS 6. Losses are about even, at 7 Constitutions crippled versus 6 D7 crippled and one destroyed.

That's three rounds of damage, so by the end of the battle I'm expecting to see a lot of damage all around.

[Tyrel Lohr]

20 Constitution Cruisers vs. 20 D7 Battlecruisers



Deep Space Scenario: 8 Rounds

Constitution CL: DV 6, AS 5, CV 1, CR 4, CC 2
D7 K't'agga CL: DV 5, AS 6, CV 1, CR 4, CC 2

Note: I was dropping fractions on my combat rolls, as per 1E. The rules in Galaxies had us rounding up instead though. Whoops.

Round 1
The Federation roll a 5 and do 13 damage, crippling 3 D7.
The Klingons roll a 3 and do 9 damage, crippling 2 Constitutions.

Each fleet moves 2 cripples out of the fleet and brings two new ships in.


Round 2
The Federation rolls 3 and scores 9 damage, crippling 2 D7.
The Klingons roll 4 and score 11 damage, crippling 2 Constitutions.

Each fleet moves 2 cripples out of the fleet and brings two new ships in.


Round 3
The Federatoin rolls 6 and scores 16 damage. Directed damage destroys crippled D7 (8), remainder cripples 2 D7
The Klingons roll 6 and score 17 damage, crippling 3 Constitutions.

Changing to BroAdso reinforcement rules at this point, the Federation can only move one Cripple out and still have enough command to bring another one in.

The Klingons bring in a fresh cruiser. Because I lost a ship I don't have enough CR to get rid of an extra cripple without leaving me understrength.


Round 4
The Federation rolls 5 and scores 11 damage. Directed damage to destroy 1 crippled D7, remaining damage is used to destroy a second D7. I figure that with the BroAdso reinforcement costs I am better off just killing it and bringing two new ships in.

The Klingons roll a 5 and score 13 damage. They let the Federation score. The Feds see what is going on here, and decide to destroy a mint Constitution for 12 points and the last point is lost.

Federation moves a fresh Constitution in. Klingons move a fresh D7 in.


Round 5
The Federation rolls 6 and scores 13 damage. The defender uses this to cripple another D7 and destroy another fresh one that just moved in.

The Klingons roll 4 and score 11 damage. The defender destroys the two crippled Constitutions.

The Federation moves 2 undamaged Constitutions into the task force. The Klingons move 1 undamaged D7 into their task force.

At this point, the Federation has 12 undamaged CL, 5 crippled CL, and 3 destroyed CL. The Klingons have 11 undamaged CL, 6 crippled CL, and 3 destroyed CL.


Round 6
The Federation rolls 5 and scores 13 damage. The Klingons destroy both crippled D7 and have to cripple another with the leftover damage.

The Klingons roll 5 and score 13 damage. The Federation cripples two Constitutions.

The Federation moves a cripple to the reinforcements and brings another undamaged one forward. The Klingons bring in two fresh ships.


Round 7
The Federation rolls 1 and scores 2 damage (LOL). No damage to the Klingons.

The Klingons roll 6 and score 17 damage (double LOL?). Klingons sit back and laugh as the Federation is forced to destroy the crippled Constitution and then another undamaged Constitution.

The Federation brings in 2 undamaged Constitutions (but they're starting to run out) and the Klingons move their crippled D7 to the reinforcements and brings an undamaged one forward.


Round 8
The Federation rolls 4 and scores 10 damage. The Klingons give a hearty belly laugh and destroy a D7.

The Klingons roll 6 and score 19 damage. The Federation player will probably cripple 3 Constitutions, but the Klingons could just directed damage and destroy one of them. Crippling 3 CL is still a better proposition, so they let that happen. Boom.


End of Scenario
Federation: 6 undamaged CL, 9 crippled CL, 5 destroyed CL
Klingons: 9 undamaged CL, 5 crippled CL, 6 destroyed CL

The Klingons turned this battle around at the end, getting lucky damage rolls in the last two combat rounds. The Empire still suffered more actual ship losses, but they managed to bloody the Federation fleet which is now mostly crippled and severely understrength. Total AS in the Federation fleet is only 57 compared to the Klingon's 69 AS.

All in all, this was still a pretty fair fight, as you'd hope given that both fleets had the same total construction cost. This was a longer battle, and if it had ended earlier the Federation would have called this a minor victory, but now it is more of a minor defeat.

If I were the Federation player I'd probably choose to disengage and retreat after this battle. The way the encounter is structured right now they wouldn't be able to be pursued as they fought their battle and the end of the scenario marked their commander ordering them to pull out of the system, and the Klingons eventually pulling back to lick their wounds.

Both fleets could have desperately used some escorts (CT/DD) to help fill in the fleets and provide some cheaper targets to soak up leftover damage. With the BroAdso reinforcement rules where you have to pay the CC to move ships both in and out of the battle it becomes pretty painful having all of these cruisers to deal with and no cheap CC 1 escorts to fling around.

This continues to highlight the need for mixed fleets. I wouldn't want to try this CL spam in a regular game because the losses are too costly. I did notice with BroAdso's rule, too, that there were more times that I was willing to kill a ship because then it would open up a slot in my task force for me to spend CR moving a fresh unit in rather than "wasting" my CR trying to move crippled ships back out of the task force.

The single squadron task force rules do seem to handle these kinds of large engagements fairly well. In theory the two sides could stay and fight another battle in the system this encounter, too, if they really want to fight to a decisive outcome. I wouldn't want to in this case unless I was trying to keep the Klingons from landing troops in my system or something along those lines. I want to get back to a supply depot or shipyard and repair my cripples first. I have a feeling that a followup engagement with the Klingons would be brutal.

Speaking of that, I do think the option to disengage after a scenario is important because otherwise we would be following this up with a Pursuit scenario right away, and I don't think that would be particularly fun for either player. We fought our one battle and I'm fine with my fleet being able to retreat now.

EDIT: I just wanted to point out that each fleet was 20 x 6 = 120 construction cost of ships (!). If a starting homeworld has a system output of 30 and you're only getting maybe half of that after maintenance, then each fleet represents about 8 turns of economic investment. With BroAdso's recommended construction capacity of 2 x Utilized Productivity (~12 at each shipyard at the start of the game) it would take 10 turns to build all of these ships. The maintenance cost of each fleet is 10 EP per turn.

What I am trying to reinforce is that these two fleets should be pretty anomalous in Galaxies, and you're only going to see these kinds of forces arrayed against each other in a major battle. And a more realistic fleet is going to include a mixture of units, and probably a better command ship.

If I was going to min/max the ships, I'd drop the CV (which I didn't even use in this battle) and give them some extra CR. That would let them have a total of 6 ships total in the task force at once (flagship + 5 extra units). That would have helped both sides immensely in this fight. If I knew my enemy didn't have any fighters, I would be tempted to dump the AF into CR, too. That would have boosted me to DV 6, AS 5, AF 0, CV 0, CR 7, CC 2 on the Constitution. Of course, if firepower is what I wanted I could drop those 3 points into AS, making me DV 6, AS 8, AF 0, CV 0, CR 4, CC 2. I wouldn't have been able to field as many ships and wouldn't have the command flexibility, but I would have a considerable firepower advantage.