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Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:07 am
by mort2018confed
Hi all. I was looking for the VBAM FB page to ask this, but I couldn't find it.

One thing that's been stopping me from doing any 2E VBAM is the lack of NPEs (that, and my heavy-duty working on SAE/SUE supplements). Now, however, after some plans on using 1E as a scenario generator for SUE games, I've gotten bitten by the VBAM bug. However, as I was a solo gamer even before Covid-19, the lack of NPE rules in 2E (and, of course, the move to the Galaxies version of the rules) has stymied any attempts in doing a 2E campaign.

What modifiers to the NPE rules from 1E would I have to make to port them over to 2E? I notice that some 1E treaty levels have been effectively combined, but the reduction of some 2E nodifiers for treaty-breaking and declarations and the increase in Intel effectiveness has made a straightforward conversion on my half.

Edit: I'm not holding out much hope about this, especially as it seems 2E has been largely superceded. Maybe I should just go back to 1E and do either SX, SAE or work on a SUE-RA conversion on my own.

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:06 pm
by Tyrel Lohr
Sorry for the delay - for some reason my alerts didn't work and I didn't see this post :(

To answer your question, the 1E NPE rules should work just fine with 2E as there were not significant enough changes between the two editions as far as the things that the NPE's interact with (since they were mostly a separate system).

A lot of the old 1E rules can hook into 2E without any problems, but yeah at this point you might be better off just pick-and-choosing the parts of 2E you want to use with the 1E rules and running with that for now if you want to be able to use all of the 1E goodies.

From memory, I think the give advantage of 2E was the ship construction rules and a few spot changes like the convoys vs. separately civilian fleets, but it was definitely an evolutionary vs. revolutionary change.

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:38 am
by mort2018confed
Thanks. I did some 1stEd campaigning and, in the process, been altering the SXCA to fit my figures. Just planning on doing another one now (the last one died when a war's outcome saw the creation of six splinter factions)

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:47 pm
by Tyrel Lohr
Ouch! Yeah, having that many successor states show up kind of takes the wind out of your sails when you're trying to manage everything.

I've had a lots of campaigns where after the big climactic war is over it's all falling action and there's not enough loose threads left to keep the momentum going.

I had one case where it worked to push the timeline ahead by like 5 years and just do a bunch of rapid year-long turn equivalents to see how reconstruction went and adjust everything, but that only worked once and then only because it was a natural lull in the emergent storytelling that had come out of the campaign.

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:00 am
by mort2018confed
I did something similar in the first of my 2020 campaigns, but only for a year--the active powers were in the middle of colony-creation and fleet expansion for those colony's defences and I didn't want to get distracted by system raids or political shifts.

In retrospect with the second campaign, giving the particular power Rival Houses AND Tense Alliance MN traits was a bad idea, but the Avtarian Imperium from my Panterre setting are basically 'Cascor with Klingon war-like tendencies and Mirror Star Trek loyalties' so, when one system failed their 'Hostile Forces' check, it immediately seceded and, when the homeworld was attacked, all the other systems seceded. Their main advantage was their standard warship, the Maikhan light carrier, could be built in a turn, was atmospheric-capable and carried 3 flights. Unfortunately, no Ballistic and Atmospheric ship, though.

Another thing I've been working on is a VBAM:Uplift-Exile universe. Well, design-wise I'm finished, simplifying all four SUE:RA supplements into seventy-eighty designs, total. And some of the concepts for that have made their way into the current campaign--notably the use of abstracted light batteries.

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:08 am
by mort2018confed
Sorry for the double post, but I've been meaning to ask you--did you have set-in-stone rules for converting B5W ships to VBAM:SX ships, or was it more a set of guidelines? I've been reading your old campaign diaries and for a while I was tempted to run a crossover campaign with a B5, ST or other B5W faction (heck, I was even tempted to use the Craytan from the Nexus campaign simply because, for some reason, their Epiron cruiser interested me--much like the Descari Scorran NCA). I made a series of notes based on the conversion of the Circasian Kolanis, but want to make sure it wasn't wildly different from (ex) the Cardassian, Pak'Ma'Ra or other powers in the Twilight's Shadow campaign.

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:10 pm
by Tyrel Lohr
Crossover campaigns were always fun, especially since it gave you a lot of source material to work with to flesh things out. I know once I get done with the heavy rules lifting for VBAM I want to get back to doing conversions of units so I can have my playbooks refreshed and updated for those kinds of games.

BroAdso has done one for his Star Wars campaign he's playing on the Discord, and that looks to be the gold standard for what I'll have to try and achieve with my own. :)

I had some guidelines for the B5W to Starmada X conversions I did, but let me try to remember what they were:

Hull = I think this was between 1 per 25 or thereabouts
Engines = Max Acceleration
Shields/Defense = I think this was roughly based on the average armor on the ships, with 3 Shields being your average 4 armor all around, and then adjusting up or down from there.

Sustained = Re-Rolls To-Hit Dice
Piercing = Re-Rolls Penetration Dice
Pulse = Increased PEN
Plasma = Range-Based DMG + Halves Shields

Range = -2/hex or less: 3, -1/hex: 6, -1/2 hexes: 9, -1/3 hexes 12, -1/4 hexes 16
To-Hit = I think this was based on average FC values, with units with better FC getting better to hits
ROF = 2/turn or faster (3), 1/turns (2), more than 1/turn (1)
PEN/DMG: this varied, I think I gave more PEN to Raking weapons, and more DMG to standard mode weapons; I want to say that PEN x DMG was usually equal to Max damage / 20, but I know I varied this to try and get the best effect on the weapons.

EA Interceptors I split into three versions of the Point Defense System, with each one blocking on a difference defense number.

I did drop the range on the Standard Particle Beam on these conversions, because I never felt it was appropriate for those to be a "main gun" on the Omega et al. So it is reduced down to -2/hex equivalent so you have to get close to be engaged by them.

I also gave Long Range Sensors to ships with 10+ EW.

Anti-Fighter Batteries were awarded to ships with enough light weapons. I think like maybe 1 per 6 light guns?

I PDF'd a few of the ships and attached them to this message, but here's a link to a RAR file of all of my B5W to Starmada X conversions for you. Old ... rsions.rar

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:27 pm
by mort2018confed
Thanks Tyrel!

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:37 am
by Tyrel Lohr
You're welcome! Those were at least my take on trying to convert B5W ships over. I think they're quite a bit slower than traditional Starmada X ships, and they're not perfect, but what I played of them they were fun and seemed to capture the spirit of the original units.

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:58 pm
by mort2018confed
Was checking my files for versions of the SXCA that had Interceptors and, after finally finding them in (I think) the SXCAs for the Solar Union designs, noticed a minor problem. For INT Mk0 and Mk1 their DRat modifiers are (according to the relevant cells) =-2/6 and =-2/3 which, if I'm right, actually reduces the DRat. And, for INT Mk2, their DRat mod is listed as =-1. So, with a bit of WAG, I'm guessing a figure of x1.1, x1.25 and x1.5 for those three different INT types.

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:47 pm
by Tyrel Lohr
LOL, well that's an interesting mistake on my part then :)

And yeah, those three values sounds reasonable enough to me, based on my foggy memory of Starmada X multipliers.

I remember that I figured that was the best way to represent Interceptors by making them partial Point Defense Systems, so the Interceptor-Mk2 on the Omega is the same as a Point Defense System but the older versions were slightly worse each generation.

I think I was giving the EA ships 1 Interceptor/PDS hybrid for every 2 Interceptors on the B5W ships, too. Which is why the Omega has 3 Interceptor special systems on there.

Re: Using 1E CC NPE rules in 2E

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:21 am
by mort2018confed
Yeah, that's what I thought too, mainly based on the fact each Int mount covers 180 degrees and so all points are covered by three separate mounts