Complexity Level

[sunwolf]

Trying to determine if VBAM is too complex, too simple or in the 'Sweet Spot' for what I am looking for.

I want to be able to develop interstellar empires, but want it simple enough that I don't need a Spreadsheet or Database to keep track of the empire. I want it complex enough that each empire has a different feel to it.

I want a Strategic system with technology development and some sort of planetary colonization but where the bookkeeping can be done fairly easily. I want a Tactical system where ships from different Empires actually seem like they need different tactics to work and where at least sometimes Manuevering can affect a battle.

Where does VBAM fit in. I've read the basic descriptions which is enough to intrigue me but need to know a bit more about the mechanics without giving them away so I can decide whether they will meet my needs or not.

Thanks.

[Iron Sky]

My question would be what would you like to use to keep track of it if not a spreadsheet? Presumably, any 4x-style game would have individual colonies, fleets with various ship designs, some sort of economy to track, and technology - to track all that would require at least some form of paperwork. My current empire fits on single-page, two-column Open Office document - though my ship designs are in a spreadsheet that I suppose could instead be a in table on the same document.

I've looked for something like what you've described for a long time and VBAM is the closest I've found, especially with modular expansion books that allow you to add more options to the game to make it more "crunchy" if the core game doesn't have all the options you want

If you're looking for a board game that meets your criteria, then Twilight Imperium and its expansions are probably what you're looking for as it does 4X than any other board game I've ever seen, played, or heard of. It is, however, still a board game - get a group of friends around the table for 12 hours - and not a "Campaign System" by any means.

[Tyrel Lohr]

Sunwolf, I think that Iron Sky's suggestion of Twilight Imperium 3 as a starting reference point in the 4x sci-fi board game genre is a good one. It offers a decent amount of decision making without a long term time commitment or too much detail that you'd need to track anything using a spreadsheet.

Now, that being said, what might be good is to take a look at Twilight Imperium 3 and identify just how much more detailed you want the rules to be and in which areas you feel the game is lacking. You could then look at expanding the base TI3 game along those lines to create a different version of the rules that use what you need and discarding the rest. From a surface read, I could see taking the basic mapping structure and expanding it, with 1-2 systems per hex with set resource values, changing the turn order structure for more streamlined play, and maybe retaining the combat and tech system so that you don't have to recreate those from whole cloth. That would give you a mapping, research, and combat engine at bare minimum that you could then expand as you see fit.

VBAM tries to take an approach that is probably closest to the old Master of Orion PC game as far as scale and scope are concerned. You don't need a spreadsheet to calculate everything, although it can definitely help if you're averse to doing calculations by hand. The math is still kept pretty simple, though, and most calculations only need to be updated when something happens that would affect them.

I will say that VBAM doesn't have a tactical combat system built into it, and if you're looking for something like that you're probably better off finding a tactical system that you like and then connecting it back to the VBAM rules. Most of the time that means figuring out how to convert the tactical stats back into the VBAM strategic layer, and then figuring out how research will work in regards to the tactical game.

[sunwolf]

May have to look at Twilight Imperium, thanks for the Suggestion.
I'm not averse to using spreadsheets as a Play Aid, the problem I have run into was in Using the Startfire Strategic system, it rapidly becomes so complex as to become completely unplayable without a very complicated Spreadsheet, so I'm looking for something with that sort of scope, but enough simpler that you don't need a super complicated with multiple worksheets and macros spreadsheet to make it playable.
Tactically I will have to see what my options are, so far haven't found a tactical game (at least in print) that lets me have some complexity regarding manuever and where a spaceship is hit that still lets you design Unique ships with different techs