Ground Units
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:37 am
It's been quiet the last two weeks, but I'm hoping to jump back in and start working on things again as this week progresses.
Another aspect of the rules that we should discuss is how players think ground forces should be handled in Galaxies? The basic rules from 2E seem to work pretty well, but I know one of the bigger questions is how to handle different sizes of ground forces and then tie those back into the movement rules for carrying the troops back and forth from system to system.
Traditionally, ground forces have been pretty cheap. In 1E, they were about 1-3 EP, and that trend continued into 2E. Of course, they were also extremely difficult to move from one place to another, which limited how many troops you could actually bring with you.
If we change it so that a ground unit has a "transport cost" equal to its construction cost, then the 10 capacity convoy ends up being able to carry 10 EP of troops at a time. If we stay with smaller, cheaper troops that ends up being a bit untenable, just because of sheer numbers.
If we make troops about 2x cost, about in line with cheap ships, then we have less of a problem. That makes the cheapest troops 2 EP, and the largest probably around 8 EP.
However, this is a place where we start disconnecting from 1E/2E where a convoy could only carry 1 troop (or 2 if they were Marines/Compact, depending on the edition). There is something to be said for having troops be more limited in number, but at the same time there are other settings (like Battletech) where the ground forces would be the main focus of the game. In that case, having a bit more versatility would be welcomed.
One thing that gstano brought up to me is that the 2 EP ground force at 6 CP is a bit too limiting when you start trying to create some older units. There just aren't enough point leftover to do much with when you get done purchasing your d2 D Factor. This might mean that we need to increase the effectiveness of these smaller units, but at the same time it also begs the question of just what level of granularity we really want with ground forces and whether we need to standardize them more.
Even if we go with 2/4/6 as the costs for our light, medium, and heavy troops, there is still an issue with balancing exactly how many points each of those gets. Ground forces have fewer stats to put points into, and we want to keep it so that small troops still have some role in combat other than as support for larger forces.
In 1E, the cheapest 1 EP ground forces had about 8 CP of abilities (2 across the board). A 2 EP unit tended to have about 12 CP, and a 3 EP unit had 15 CP. Again, with the 2/4/6 split, that would end up being about a Cost x 2 + 4.
The 2E rules tried to moderate ground units by keeping their costs between 2-4 EP, that way we only had to worry about doubling rather than tripling in abilities for these units. Of course, this was largely related to the fact that only 1 ground unit could be carried per convoy, in much the same way that 1 flight occupies 1 CV regardless of size. This necessitated that troops be of similar capabilities to prevent light units from being a lot weaker than heavy units. Commandos at 1 EP did exist, but they were almost always a bad idea.
In some ways, it sounds like the direction we're headed here is going to be to have larger and more varied ground armies, and that might require a bit of rethinking about how the ground combat ends up working. I was trying to make it more balanced for small numbers of ground forces to fight, but if we're angling for a system where a single convoy might be carrying 2-5 ground forces, then we may have to revisit some of the concepts to keep it from getting too one-sided -- or at least make sure that the economics balances out.
Another option we have is to keep things similar to 2E and balance around that 2-4 EP cost, just assuming we have more troops to work with.
What are players' experiences with ground combat in their own campaigns up to this point?
Another aspect of the rules that we should discuss is how players think ground forces should be handled in Galaxies? The basic rules from 2E seem to work pretty well, but I know one of the bigger questions is how to handle different sizes of ground forces and then tie those back into the movement rules for carrying the troops back and forth from system to system.
Traditionally, ground forces have been pretty cheap. In 1E, they were about 1-3 EP, and that trend continued into 2E. Of course, they were also extremely difficult to move from one place to another, which limited how many troops you could actually bring with you.
If we change it so that a ground unit has a "transport cost" equal to its construction cost, then the 10 capacity convoy ends up being able to carry 10 EP of troops at a time. If we stay with smaller, cheaper troops that ends up being a bit untenable, just because of sheer numbers.
If we make troops about 2x cost, about in line with cheap ships, then we have less of a problem. That makes the cheapest troops 2 EP, and the largest probably around 8 EP.
However, this is a place where we start disconnecting from 1E/2E where a convoy could only carry 1 troop (or 2 if they were Marines/Compact, depending on the edition). There is something to be said for having troops be more limited in number, but at the same time there are other settings (like Battletech) where the ground forces would be the main focus of the game. In that case, having a bit more versatility would be welcomed.
One thing that gstano brought up to me is that the 2 EP ground force at 6 CP is a bit too limiting when you start trying to create some older units. There just aren't enough point leftover to do much with when you get done purchasing your d2 D Factor. This might mean that we need to increase the effectiveness of these smaller units, but at the same time it also begs the question of just what level of granularity we really want with ground forces and whether we need to standardize them more.
Even if we go with 2/4/6 as the costs for our light, medium, and heavy troops, there is still an issue with balancing exactly how many points each of those gets. Ground forces have fewer stats to put points into, and we want to keep it so that small troops still have some role in combat other than as support for larger forces.
In 1E, the cheapest 1 EP ground forces had about 8 CP of abilities (2 across the board). A 2 EP unit tended to have about 12 CP, and a 3 EP unit had 15 CP. Again, with the 2/4/6 split, that would end up being about a Cost x 2 + 4.
The 2E rules tried to moderate ground units by keeping their costs between 2-4 EP, that way we only had to worry about doubling rather than tripling in abilities for these units. Of course, this was largely related to the fact that only 1 ground unit could be carried per convoy, in much the same way that 1 flight occupies 1 CV regardless of size. This necessitated that troops be of similar capabilities to prevent light units from being a lot weaker than heavy units. Commandos at 1 EP did exist, but they were almost always a bad idea.
In some ways, it sounds like the direction we're headed here is going to be to have larger and more varied ground armies, and that might require a bit of rethinking about how the ground combat ends up working. I was trying to make it more balanced for small numbers of ground forces to fight, but if we're angling for a system where a single convoy might be carrying 2-5 ground forces, then we may have to revisit some of the concepts to keep it from getting too one-sided -- or at least make sure that the economics balances out.
Another option we have is to keep things similar to 2E and balance around that 2-4 EP cost, just assuming we have more troops to work with.
What are players' experiences with ground combat in their own campaigns up to this point?