I think we touched on this in the Omerth crusade thread, but we don't have a proper thread over here yet, and it's probably good for us to start bashing out what people like or don't like about the various raiding rules.
The immediate issue that I'm dealing with is where to put Raiding in the Sequence of Play? Does it move to the Space Combat / Encounters Phase, stay in the Supply Phase, or move somewhere else entirely? There used to be an argument for it being in the Movement Phase, but with the "board game" style Sequence of Play change that doesn't seem right.
Staying in the Supply Phase is probably just as well, but it has journeyed around enough so far that I thought it might be worth discussing.
For people that haven't checked the draft or the Omerth thread, the Galaxies raiding chances have been moved to being more like the 1E style calculations, but with ships giving a flat -5% modifier (or -10% for Police) instead of a modifier based on the construction cost present (which got fiddly to calculate). The base raiding chance is 10% + 10% per civilian units (convoy, shipyard, supply depot). What that generally means is that you have to keep at least a "squadron" of light warships or police ships in a system to keep the pirates at bay.
One element of the 1E raiding rules that I completely missed but have added back to Galaxies is that it says you are supposed to make raiding rules in any system that contains a convoy OR that doesn't contain any fleets. That means all of those uninhabited systems on the map that you're not patrolling should have a chance of spawning raiders! I didn't catch that until this last read through. That kind of changes the dynamic, as now as you explore you'll really want to keep some ships on patrol or else there is a chance that some pirates are going to show up and harass you in the future.
Granted, at a base 10% chance in Galaxies at present, that mans parking a single police corvette there is going to be enough to keep the pirates from getting out of line.
A good question would be if those raiding chances sound right or if you think they should be increased? 1E had them at a base 20% and +20% per convoy. Shipyard and supply depots didn't enter into the equation in 1E, and in 2E I had everything based on Census instead which worked, but I think the preference is for the older system.
Raiding
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Tyrel Lohr
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Raiding
[i]"Touch not the pylons, for they are the messengers!"[/i]
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Tyrel Lohr
- Vice Admiral
- Posts: 1466
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:48 am
- Location: Lusk, WY
- Contact:
Re: Raiding
Hey, look, I just had a raid on my first real turn back in the playtest campaign ( 
). I had a 10% raiding chance, and rolled 10% exactly.
Background: A United Earth convoy has been sent to the Beta Hydri system to build a new Small Base in the system to help protect the system. It is being escorted by a pair of Neptune class destroyers (Jupiter and Saturn). Soon after coming out of warp three raider corvettes appeared out of nowhere and generates a Pursuit scenario against them!
Surprise: Earth rolls 3 (Poor -1), Raiders roll 8 (Good +1)
Scenario Length: The roll [2d6] is 10 rounds. This is reduced by 1 round by the Earth Poor readiness, increased by 1 round by the Raiders Good readiness, and reduced by 4 rounds by the scenario type for a total of 6 rounds. The Earth fleet was caught in a position that they really can't run in this scenario.
Scout Use in Scenario Setup: I still haven't rolled out the 1E style Intel, but I don't have Scouts to take advantage of that anyway. The Raiders automatically get to include a civilian unit, which is the convoy.
Round 1
The Jupiter is ordering both Neptunes on Anti-Ship missions (2 CC total) to reconfigure their phase cannons to engage the enemy ships (+2 AS, -2 AF).
The Raiders are likewise locking down their plasma bolts to burn through the Earther polarized hull plating and all three raiders are on Anti-Ship missions (+3 AS, -3 AF).
United Earth rolls 3-1 = 2 x 8 AS = 16 = 2 damage (I'm rounding up like I should in this battle). Predator #3 is crippled!
Raiders roll 1+1 = 2 x 12 = 24 = 3 damage. USS Saturn is crippled as a series of plasma volleys rip into its starboard hull. There are hull breaches on every deck. They can only be lucky that the raiders were a little quick on the trigger, firing on the edge of their engagement range rather than getting closer.
Round 2
The Earth ships continue to defend their convoy. Only the Jupiter is on a dedicated Anti-Ship mission (+1 AS, -1 AF), as the Saturn is crippled and can't be ordered on a mission (and I think convoys probably shouldn't be able to receive missions at all).
Two raider ships are still dedicated Anti-Ship (+2 AS, -2 AF). The third has the same problem as the Saturn: it is crippled and can't keep coordinate well enough with the fleet to do a special mission.
United Earth rolls 6 x 6 = 36 = 4 damage (!). The two ships arc around and succeed in vaporizing Predator #2, leaving behind an expanding cloud of debris!
Raiders roll 3 x 10 = 30 = 3 damage. Unfortunately for the Saturn, the raider fire punches through her hull in multiple locations, venting the entire ship to space and leaving her a dead wreck.
Round 3
Jupiter swings back around on an Anti-Ship mission determined to avenge the Saturn (+1 AS, -1 AF). Only a single Raider is on a dedicated mission, as the other is crippled (+1 AS, -1 AF)
United Earth rolls 1 x 4 = 4 = 1 damage. The Jupiter's phase cannon fire shoots wide, but a single spatial torpedo homes in on the crippled Predator #3 and hits its main impulse manifold, causing an explosion that engulfs the rest of the ship in moments.
Raiders roll 6 x 6 = 36 = 4 damage. The two Raider craft dart in and pepper the Jupiter with fire, leaving the ship crippled and operating under half impulse. The ship's polarized hull plating has failed, and the chief engineer knows that she canna' take much more!
Round 4
The Jupiter has to hold the line, no matter the cost. It is down to a final shoot out between her and the last surviving Raider corvette. The Raiders continue on a dedicated Anti-Ship mission (+1 AS, -1 AF).
United Earth rolls 6 x 2 = 12 = 2 damage. The Raider corvette is rocked as fire beats into its underbelly as it makes a strafing run.
Raiders roll 1 x 4 = 1 damage. At the last second, the Jupiter manages to bring its polarized hull plating back online, blocking the raider volley. The system burns out completely afterwards, unfortunately.
Round 5
Neither side has an uncrippled ship, so there are no dedicated missions.
United Earth rolls 5 x 2 = 10 = 1 damage. The Jupiter barely manages to destroy the corvette, a lucky phase cannon hit striking the ship's warp core and causing a massive explosion.
Raiders roll 6 x 2 = 12 = 2 damage. A final plasma bolt strike the main impulse control housing of the Jupiter, detonating its deuterium fuel storage resulting in the ship blowing apart into an expanding sphere of gas and debris.
Outcome: The battle is over. The raiders were defeated, but both Earth starships were destroyed in the engagement. The convoy was able to recover surviving lifeboats from both ships, but it is now alone in Beta Hydri without any escorts to protect it against future raider attacks.
Commentary: Rounding up is deadly in these kinds of "midget" battles! It ensured that Earth was always going to do at least some damage to the raider corvettes, but at the same time it meant that the Earth destroyers were not in a good position to survive. The Jupiter only had a 1 in 6 chance of dying that last round, but it got unlucky. At least they didn't lose the very expensive convoy, but now they have 8 EP of ships to replace.
I am wondering if our command point pool should be based on the CC of the flagship instead of the CR, if only because otherwise in battles like this pretty much everyone can be on a dedicated mission, but I'm not sure this is going to be representative of a typical battle. Also the missions aren't available when a ship is crippled.
I also just realized that the Raiders should have received a +2 surprise bonus from the Pursuit scenario.
That probably would have tipped the battle in their favor. Oh well, I guess that is a good excuse to get those scenarios fleshed back out -- and a cheat sheet table in that section showing all of the modifiers wouldn't be a bad thing.
I'm still really happy with how the combat tests are running, though. And this battle highlighted one other important element about the dedicated missions and CSCR: combined arms is very important! If I would have had shuttlepods on these destroyers I would have been able to do more damage and the raiders would have had to keep their AF fire to try and deal with them rather than going full AF. I also wouldn't have suffered the kinds of losses that I did if I'd had a few corvettes of my own in place of the Saturn to soak the leftover damage. But DV 2 ships are bad for soaking up errant damage, because they are guaranteed to take damage from even a point of leftover damage. Which is legitimate, and I don't really have a problem with that.
As the Earth admiral, I am going to have rethink my strategy...
). I had a 10% raiding chance, and rolled 10% exactly.Background: A United Earth convoy has been sent to the Beta Hydri system to build a new Small Base in the system to help protect the system. It is being escorted by a pair of Neptune class destroyers (Jupiter and Saturn). Soon after coming out of warp three raider corvettes appeared out of nowhere and generates a Pursuit scenario against them!
Surprise: Earth rolls 3 (Poor -1), Raiders roll 8 (Good +1)
Scenario Length: The roll [2d6] is 10 rounds. This is reduced by 1 round by the Earth Poor readiness, increased by 1 round by the Raiders Good readiness, and reduced by 4 rounds by the scenario type for a total of 6 rounds. The Earth fleet was caught in a position that they really can't run in this scenario.
Scout Use in Scenario Setup: I still haven't rolled out the 1E style Intel, but I don't have Scouts to take advantage of that anyway. The Raiders automatically get to include a civilian unit, which is the convoy.
Round 1
The Jupiter is ordering both Neptunes on Anti-Ship missions (2 CC total) to reconfigure their phase cannons to engage the enemy ships (+2 AS, -2 AF).
The Raiders are likewise locking down their plasma bolts to burn through the Earther polarized hull plating and all three raiders are on Anti-Ship missions (+3 AS, -3 AF).
United Earth rolls 3-1 = 2 x 8 AS = 16 = 2 damage (I'm rounding up like I should in this battle). Predator #3 is crippled!
Raiders roll 1+1 = 2 x 12 = 24 = 3 damage. USS Saturn is crippled as a series of plasma volleys rip into its starboard hull. There are hull breaches on every deck. They can only be lucky that the raiders were a little quick on the trigger, firing on the edge of their engagement range rather than getting closer.
Round 2
The Earth ships continue to defend their convoy. Only the Jupiter is on a dedicated Anti-Ship mission (+1 AS, -1 AF), as the Saturn is crippled and can't be ordered on a mission (and I think convoys probably shouldn't be able to receive missions at all).
Two raider ships are still dedicated Anti-Ship (+2 AS, -2 AF). The third has the same problem as the Saturn: it is crippled and can't keep coordinate well enough with the fleet to do a special mission.
United Earth rolls 6 x 6 = 36 = 4 damage (!). The two ships arc around and succeed in vaporizing Predator #2, leaving behind an expanding cloud of debris!
Raiders roll 3 x 10 = 30 = 3 damage. Unfortunately for the Saturn, the raider fire punches through her hull in multiple locations, venting the entire ship to space and leaving her a dead wreck.
Round 3
Jupiter swings back around on an Anti-Ship mission determined to avenge the Saturn (+1 AS, -1 AF). Only a single Raider is on a dedicated mission, as the other is crippled (+1 AS, -1 AF)
United Earth rolls 1 x 4 = 4 = 1 damage. The Jupiter's phase cannon fire shoots wide, but a single spatial torpedo homes in on the crippled Predator #3 and hits its main impulse manifold, causing an explosion that engulfs the rest of the ship in moments.
Raiders roll 6 x 6 = 36 = 4 damage. The two Raider craft dart in and pepper the Jupiter with fire, leaving the ship crippled and operating under half impulse. The ship's polarized hull plating has failed, and the chief engineer knows that she canna' take much more!
Round 4
The Jupiter has to hold the line, no matter the cost. It is down to a final shoot out between her and the last surviving Raider corvette. The Raiders continue on a dedicated Anti-Ship mission (+1 AS, -1 AF).
United Earth rolls 6 x 2 = 12 = 2 damage. The Raider corvette is rocked as fire beats into its underbelly as it makes a strafing run.
Raiders roll 1 x 4 = 1 damage. At the last second, the Jupiter manages to bring its polarized hull plating back online, blocking the raider volley. The system burns out completely afterwards, unfortunately.
Round 5
Neither side has an uncrippled ship, so there are no dedicated missions.
United Earth rolls 5 x 2 = 10 = 1 damage. The Jupiter barely manages to destroy the corvette, a lucky phase cannon hit striking the ship's warp core and causing a massive explosion.
Raiders roll 6 x 2 = 12 = 2 damage. A final plasma bolt strike the main impulse control housing of the Jupiter, detonating its deuterium fuel storage resulting in the ship blowing apart into an expanding sphere of gas and debris.
Outcome: The battle is over. The raiders were defeated, but both Earth starships were destroyed in the engagement. The convoy was able to recover surviving lifeboats from both ships, but it is now alone in Beta Hydri without any escorts to protect it against future raider attacks.
Commentary: Rounding up is deadly in these kinds of "midget" battles! It ensured that Earth was always going to do at least some damage to the raider corvettes, but at the same time it meant that the Earth destroyers were not in a good position to survive. The Jupiter only had a 1 in 6 chance of dying that last round, but it got unlucky. At least they didn't lose the very expensive convoy, but now they have 8 EP of ships to replace.
I am wondering if our command point pool should be based on the CC of the flagship instead of the CR, if only because otherwise in battles like this pretty much everyone can be on a dedicated mission, but I'm not sure this is going to be representative of a typical battle. Also the missions aren't available when a ship is crippled.
I also just realized that the Raiders should have received a +2 surprise bonus from the Pursuit scenario.
That probably would have tipped the battle in their favor. Oh well, I guess that is a good excuse to get those scenarios fleshed back out -- and a cheat sheet table in that section showing all of the modifiers wouldn't be a bad thing.I'm still really happy with how the combat tests are running, though. And this battle highlighted one other important element about the dedicated missions and CSCR: combined arms is very important! If I would have had shuttlepods on these destroyers I would have been able to do more damage and the raiders would have had to keep their AF fire to try and deal with them rather than going full AF. I also wouldn't have suffered the kinds of losses that I did if I'd had a few corvettes of my own in place of the Saturn to soak the leftover damage. But DV 2 ships are bad for soaking up errant damage, because they are guaranteed to take damage from even a point of leftover damage. Which is legitimate, and I don't really have a problem with that.
As the Earth admiral, I am going to have rethink my strategy...
[i]"Touch not the pylons, for they are the messengers!"[/i]