VBAM 2E TCW

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Chyll
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VBAM 2E TCW

Postby Chyll » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:04 pm

The work to review and update the Stars Divided material in relation to VBAM 2E has begun.


Questions I have for you, interested reader(s):

1. The first release 'fluff' material ends at the start of the conflict. Should v2 include a cleaned up version the 'official' results posted in the files section of the Yahoo group?

2. Since the amount of VBAM-Starmada linked material will be less out of the gate, I am toying with including an expanded VBAM fleet registry. Worth it as an appendix? Separate file? Not at all?

3. I am going to back off my plans to do scenario/play material for earlier Terran history for now... Anyone want me to include any teaser info for what happens after the Terran Civil War? (The plan is for the playtest for that to begin finally in 2010.)

4. What else? What, looking at the current TCW book, do you wish was in there?
No man is wise enough by himself.
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Tyrel Lohr
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Re: VBAM 2E TCW

Postby Tyrel Lohr » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:43 pm

1. The first release 'fluff' material ends at the start of the conflict. Should v2 include a cleaned up version the 'official' results posted in the files section of the Yahoo group?


My gut instinct is that the historical resolution of the Terran Civil War should probably appear in the next Terran supplement, simply so that the official outcome won't have any undue influence over how individual players resolve the scenario. That is probably not a real issue, but I could see some players trying to replicate the "historic" results... though, now that I think about it, that isn't necessarily a bad thing.


2. Since the amount of VBAM-Starmada linked material will be less out of the gate, I am toying with including an expanded VBAM fleet registry. Worth it as an appendix? Separate file? Not at all?


It might be worth converting the Starmada X ship sheets to the newest Starmada edition, so that those ships will still be compatible (even if the old Starmada Edition will need a complete revision).

An expanded fleet registry might be nice, even if it is a few of the additional historical ship classes that were on their way out during the war. Or, if you do include the historical scenario outcome, you could also introduce some of the historical unit classes that came into being during the war.

Once I finally get 2E finished, we will have to check with Dan and see what he wants to do in relation to Starmada. It would be nice to get a new Starmada Edition put together.


3. I am going to back off my plans to do scenario/play material for earlier Terran history for now... Anyone want me to include any teaser info for what happens after the Terran Civil War? (The plan is for the playtest for that to begin finally in 2010.)


A few plot hooks could probably be dangled out there to get players interested in what the new product might hold ;)


[/quote]4. What else? What, looking at the current TCW book, do you wish was in there?[/quote]

From a 2E perspective, you will probably end up with some more detailed ground combat unit types, or at least a slightly fleshed out ground unit list to take advantage of the increased rules granularity.

If you do go ahead and include the historical outcome in a new edition of TCW, it might also be worth investigating offering one or two additional scenarios in the book that would allow the players to begin in the middle of the war, with some of the new ship classes already introduced. That would offer a shortened scenario for players to play, and if it was centered around one of the pivotal points in the war it would allow the players to try and reverse the historical fortunes or see how much differently the campaign would turn out had things turned out a bit differently.

-Tyrel
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Re: VBAM 2E TCW

Postby Chyll » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:12 pm

Tyrel Lohr wrote:
Chyll wrote:1. The first release 'fluff' material ends at the start of the conflict. Should v2 include a cleaned up version the 'official' results posted in the files section of the Yahoo group?


My gut instinct is that the historical resolution of the Terran Civil War should probably appear in the next Terran supplement, simply so that the official outcome won't have any undue influence over how individual players resolve the scenario. That is probably not a real issue, but I could see some players trying to replicate the "historic" results... though, now that I think about it, that isn't necessarily a bad thing.


Including the TCW historical result in the next supplement was always the plan. Probably a good plan, but I know some people like to examine their play against a benchmark, as you point out in the second bit there.

I'm still leaning towards the first plan, but I thought I'd ask.

Tyrel Lohr wrote:
2. Since the amount of VBAM-Starmada linked material will be less out of the gate, I am toying with including an expanded VBAM fleet registry. Worth it as an appendix? Separate file? Not at all?


It might be worth converting the Starmada X ship sheets to the newest Starmada edition, so that those ships will still be compatible (even if the old Starmada Edition will need a complete revision).


This needs to be done anyway. Was leaning towards waiting for an updated Starmada Edition and doing it separately as quick reference file.


Tyrel Lohr wrote:From a 2E perspective, you will probably end up with some more detailed ground combat unit types, or at least a slightly fleshed out ground unit list to take advantage of the increased rules granularity.


True enough. I had not gotten that far yet, but I am interested to see how the simple effort to increase ground unit design in TCW translates to the improved VBAM2 methodology.

Tyrel Lohr wrote:If you do go ahead and include the historical outcome in a new edition of TCW, it might also be worth investigating offering one or two additional scenarios in the book that would allow the players to begin in the middle of the war, with some of the new ship classes already introduced. That would offer a shortened scenario for players to play, and if it was centered around one of the pivotal points in the war it would allow the players to try and reverse the historical fortunes or see how much differently the campaign would turn out had things turned out a bit differently.


That, sir, is exactly the kind of good idea for which I was fishing. 8)
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Re: VBAM 2E TCW

Postby Tyrel Lohr » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:39 pm

Chyll wrote:Including the TCW historical result in the next supplement was always the plan. Probably a good plan, but I know some people like to examine their play against a benchmark, as you point out in the second bit there.


The best integration of historical results along with the scenarios themselves I've seen is the Stars at War supplement for Starfire that provides a group of tactical scenarios linked together by a single historical narrative. It is extremely cool to see executed, and makes for a good read even if you could care less about the attached tactical scenarios. My father actually sat down and read the book because he was a fan of Weber's Starfire setting, but he has zero interest in the game.


This needs to be done anyway. Was leaning towards waiting for an updated Starmada Edition and doing it separately as quick reference file.


Our development time has been split so many different directions the last year or two, but hopefully we should be able to get a revised Starmada Edition put together later this year, MJ12 willing of course. Luckily, with the way that VBAM 2E is setup, a new version of that book should really be easier to assemble, as you don't have to abstract out quite as much of the unit stats.

I also used the Starmada X TCW stats as a baseline when I was working on early builds of the current unit design rules and, barring a few anomalies, the ships converted over from S:X to 2E with only a few stat differences compared to S:X to 1E. Speed on the smaller ships was the biggest difference, as ships like the Mississippi couldn't afford enough Engines to get to the desired level.

Of course, last week (when I should have been finishing Piracy) I penned some optional rules that gives units a stat bonus based on their type. Light Warships get an Engine bonus, Cruisers an Endurance bonus, Capital Ships a Command bonus, and Carriers a Launch bonus. If that optional rule was used with TCW, then the light warships would be able to match their S:X Engine values at a 1:1 level, IIRC.


That, sir, is exactly the kind of good idea for which I was fishing. 8)


I would also consider adding a few of the elite officers that appeared in the campaign to both scenarios as an option for players that want to play with the "historic" officers, or else provide an alternative that would allow the players to create their own select group of officers.

-Tyrel
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Postby duxdarius » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:57 pm

1. The first release 'fluff' material ends at the start of the conflict. Should v2 include a cleaned up version the 'official' results posted in the files section of the Yahoo group?

2. Since the amount of VBAM-Starmada linked material will be less out of the gate, I am toying with including an expanded VBAM fleet registry. Worth it as an appendix? Separate file? Not at all?

3. I am going to back off my plans to do scenario/play material for earlier Terran history for now... Anyone want me to include any teaser info for what happens after the Terran Civil War? (The plan is for the playtest for that to begin finally in 2010.)

4. What else? What, looking at the current TCW book, do you wish was in there?




1. I think a look at how things went historically are immensely helpful to a new players. The scope is so huge that unless you have a clue where to begin , you can make early mistakes in the beginning , which can impact your end-game significantly. I was lucky playing the CoM and had a CM who knew the game very well, and was able to give me advice on how his previous games went. It was a very enjoyable a setting to play in with the possibility of many different strategies.

2. A web enhancement for the book should work fine.

3. I am all for helping with the play test. I would love a teaser.

4. I would say, more future ship designs, why was that special mineral laser put in for? I did not see how it had any significant effect on the game.


Cliff

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Postby Chyll » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:42 pm

Thanks for the feedback. It is always nice to hear people have played it and had fun.

duxdarius wrote:1. I think a look at how things went historically are immensely helpful to a new players. The scope is so huge that unless you have a clue where to begin , you can make early mistakes in the beginning , which can impact your end-game significantly. I was lucky playing the CoM and had a CM who knew the game very well, and was able to give me advice on how his previous games went. It was a very enjoyable a setting to play in with the possibility of many different strategies.

2. A web enhancement for the book should work fine.


I am thinking that I would do the main book without the historical result, but add a separate file of historic (and perhaps scenario) info as an included supplement. That would also help keep any subsequent setting material from needing to go beyond a Terran summary.


duxdarius wrote:3. I am all for helping with the play test. I would love a teaser.


I also always enjoy teasers and extras myself.

duxdarius wrote:4. I would say, more future ship designs, why was that special mineral laser put in for? I did not see how it had any significant effect on the game.


Ah.
The intial intention was to have the special resource there as a distraction/planning trigger. In my head I could easily see a CoM player going "oh, shiny!" and devoting resources that would be more useful elsewhere. The idea was to resist the urge, weather the initial flurry of conflict, and then find a way to develop the resouce for late game impact.

I struggled with them in my early self testing, because I always avoiding the call of the shiny and rarely played long enough before I'd tweaked enough to start over. So, they never came up and I almost removed them. I decided to leave them in for the larger playtest, as a last check.

In the official multi-player session, the Covenant was moving to develop the resource as the war wound down. It was the fact that they were actually getting thought and attention that prompted me to leave it in.
No man is wise enough by himself.

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Re: VBAM 2E TCW

Postby Emiricol » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:11 pm

Chyll wrote:The work to review and update the Stars Divided material in relation to VBAM 2E has begun.


Questions I have for you, interested reader(s):

1. The first release 'fluff' material ends at the start of the conflict. Should v2 include a cleaned up version the 'official' results posted in the files section of the Yahoo group?

2. Since the amount of VBAM-Starmada linked material will be less out of the gate, I am toying with including an expanded VBAM fleet registry. Worth it as an appendix? Separate file? Not at all?

3. I am going to back off my plans to do scenario/play material for earlier Terran history for now... Anyone want me to include any teaser info for what happens after the Terran Civil War? (The plan is for the playtest for that to begin finally in 2010.)

4. What else? What, looking at the current TCW book, do you wish was in there?


Hi, loved the book. Truly inspiring. I like a lot of the ideas floating through this thread (sorry for the thread necromancy however).

1) I'd like to see it cleaned up and included. Historical results are my thing, I (like Tyrel's dad) read the Starfire sourcebooks with great interest because of the outcomes and the cool way of stringing battles together into a narrative.

2) Ship registry is cool, but I'd rather see it as a web supplement than additional page-count.

3) Teasers = good.

4) Random events maybe. Or perhaps "trigger events", where if Player X accomplishes Y, then Z happens. Hard for a solo campaign, but possible for a scenario/event book like this.

Sorry, not much really to add to all this discussion.

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Postby Chyll » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:07 am

thanks for the feedback though.

much appreciated
No man is wise enough by himself.

- Plautus


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