Converting to 2E stats exploration

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Charles Lewis
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Converting to 2E stats exploration

Postby Charles Lewis » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:05 pm

This will probably end up in a Dev journal once I reach some satisfactory conclusion, but in the meantime I'll share my ponderings and musings with y'all.

For the most part the ship builder rules seem to have gelled and only minor balancing tweaks remain. Thus I'm starting the task of generating 2E stats for the Jovian Chronicles force lists so that the fruits of my labors can continue to enjoy relevance into the future! :P

Anyhoo, here's my first attempt, where we will be making a pass at converting the Jovian Forge Patrol Carrier to 2E stats.

The first issue is tech. I acknowledge that I'm going to have to make a more thorough review of the setting to more appropriately assign tech levels to the various factions, but for now, I'm giving the Jovians 5's across the board. This is more about developing a method right now.

Lighting Strike gave units a size stat. My first thought is "sweet! that'll simplify that part of the process." However, upon review I discover that all ships fall in a range of 7-10 while all units fall in a range of 1-4. Poo. No help at all.

Next I try and map the LS sizes to VBAM Unit Builder sizes. I drop VBAM sizes 8,9 and 10, figuring that they will get allocated to the various sizes of colony cylinders. I've got free floating turrets at size 5 in LS so they get Size 1 in VBAM. Coming down from the cylinders, I decide to map VBAM Size 7 to LS Size 10 and on down. The Forge is listed as an 8, so that puts me at VBAM Size 5, a Protected Cruiser.

Since Lightning Strike is contained within our Solar System and no ship has FTL capability that's one issue I don't have to worry about. I then take the Fleet Manuever rating and assign that as the Engines rating. The Forge is a 2.

All ships will get a 1 in Sensors, Electronic Attack and Electronic Protection to match the gist of the rules, with ships with bonuses or specifically higher ratings getting bumped accordingly. The Forge has no bonuses, so it gets 1s in all three.

I then give it Carrier and Hangar Bays of 6 to match the LS Hangar rating of 6 and Launch Bays 6 to match the LS Catapults 6 of the Forge.

Rather than reinvent the wheel, I match the CR, AS and AF ratings I had derived in the 1E stats. This may or may not prove to be appropriate, buy why reinvent the wheel if I don't have to? This method will result in the Forge keepings its CR of 5, AS of 4, and AF of 5.

Finally, I give a Cargo rating equal to the ship's LS Repair rating. This will give the Forge a Cargo rating of 3.

Of course, even at TL 5s, I've long since blown through mass limit of a Protected Cruiser. Playing with the categories I find that only a Battleship gives me sufficient mass to hold everything. That could prove to be a problem when I get to an actual Lightning Strike Battleship, but for now I'm going to leave ship size to be determined by what will hold all the stats.

So the first pass at a 2E conversion gives us the following stat block:

JAF Forge Patrol Carrier
Size 8 Ship, TL 5, Mass 1804, CC 4
Construction Cost 19, Maintenance Cost .79, Completion Time 10 Turns
Structural: Defense 8 (+199)
Propulsion: Engines 2 (+159)
Electronics: Command 5, Electronic Attack 1, Electronic Protection 1, Sensors 1 (+169)
Weapons: Anti-Fighter 5, Anti-Ship 4 (+224)
Basing: Carrier 6, Hangar 6, Launch Bay 6 (+239)
Support: Cargo 3 (+60)

Compare that to its 1E stat line...

Name | Cost | Maint | DV | AS | AF | CR | CC | Basing | Atm | FM | Availability | Notes
Forge Patrol Carrier| 5| 0.5| 8| 4| 5| 5| 4| 6| N| 2| Common| Ballistic, Carrier, Gunship

I think the first issue this raises is more care needs to be put into assigning tech levels. In the source, the Forge is nowhere near a Battleship in size or useage. I may also have to tweak base mass costs for some items of equipment to better model the setting. While that will render the force lists incompatible with other 2E force lists, it's more important that I make sure the Jovian Chronicles factions are appropriately represented in the conversion.

I'll keep you posted on my progress!
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Re: Converting to 2E stats exploration

Postby Gareth_Perkins » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:28 pm

Charles Lewis wrote:Of course, even at TL 5s, I've long since blown through mass limit of a Protected Cruiser. Playing with the categories I find that only a Battleship gives me sufficient mass to hold everything. That could prove to be a problem when I get to an actual Lightning Strike Battleship, but for now I'm going to leave ship size to be determined by what will hold all the stats.

It may be worth giving LS ships an artificial mass modifier for launch bays and catapults (50% perhaps?) - they are core to the system and some vessels carry a lot, that might help bring the masses down to a reasonable level?

That or perhaps you'll simply need to "adjust" the mass at the end of the process, setting a suitable ratio for the setting might bring all of the mass results into the correct ballpark (you will need to do something like this for some settings, as ships are simply more capable in some settings - and less capable in others),
Gareth Lazelle

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Postby Charles Lewis » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:17 pm

Regardless of tech level adjustments, I'm almost certainly going to need to do something along those lines, too.
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Postby Gareth_Perkins » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:37 pm

Another thought,

If memory serves flights are only one "fighter" or "mecha" in JC - whereas in VBAM they represent a group of four-six craft,

So you could easily justify an 80% mass reduction for flights on that basis (for hangers and possibly something similar for catapults - no big runways on JC),
Gareth Lazelle

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Postby Tyrel Lohr » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:07 pm

Another thing to bear in mind is that you can safely remove that Carrier equipment from the ship as, with how things stand right now, the Carrier ability will no longer exist in 2E, having been replaced by Hangar and Launch equipment. So that will free you up a little bit of mass, albeit not a lot.

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Postby Charles Lewis » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:41 am

Gareth_Perkins wrote:Another thought,

If memory serves flights are only one "fighter" or "mecha" in JC - whereas in VBAM they represent a group of four-six craft,

So you could easily justify an 80% mass reduction for flights on that basis (for hangers and possibly something similar for catapults - no big runways on JC),


That was already taken into consideration in the 1E conversion. However, I am moving towards a general reduction in all mass requirements in order to better mirror Lightning Strike capabilities in appropriately sized hulls.

I've also done a first pass at setting tech levels. The vast majority of techs are at 5, as the major factions are all pretty comfortable operating in space, and then I've bumped specific areas up trying to match specializations. I'll probably post those tomorrow for comment.
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Postby Charles Lewis » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:42 am

Tyrel Lohr wrote:Another thing to bear in mind is that you can safely remove that Carrier equipment from the ship as, with how things stand right now, the Carrier ability will no longer exist in 2E, having been replaced by Hangar and Launch equipment. So that will free you up a little bit of mass, albeit not a lot.

-Tyrel


That answers that question. The next time you do a pass through that chapter you should look for and nuke references to that trait, as it still gets mentioned in a place or two.
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Postby Tyrel Lohr » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:34 pm

Charles Lewis wrote:That answers that question. The next time you do a pass through that chapter you should look for and nuke references to that trait, as it still gets mentioned in a place or two.


I need to do a pass to get all of those old references. Carrier itself has been struck through for awhile now, and carrier is now just a generic term for any unit that can transport and deploy Flights or Aircraft.

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Postby Emiricol » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:38 pm

I was going to buy JC, as I like to collect VBAM stuff, but put it off once I heard 2E was coming out. If I buy JC, it sounds like there'll be at least solid conversion notes, is that the case?

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Postby Charles Lewis » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:00 pm

If you are at all interested in the JC book, go ahead and get it. :)

Once the 2E unit format is settled, I'll be working on a final set of 2E stats for the book. I believe most source books published under 1E will see a stat update for use in 2E.
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Re: Converting to 2E stats exploration

Postby Emiricol » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:26 pm

Bought it yesterday. Still digesting it, but I really love what I am seeing so far.

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Re: Converting to 2E stats exploration

Postby Charles Lewis » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:25 pm

Emiricol wrote:Bought it yesterday. Still digesting it, but I really love what I am seeing so far.


Joy! :D
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Re: Converting to 2E stats exploration

Postby Emiricol » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:43 am

Any chance of orbital settlements making it into the 2e companion once the license expires and it's no longer a conflict?

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Re: Converting to 2E stats exploration

Postby Charles Lewis » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:34 pm

I don't think there was ever a conflict regarding orbital colonies just because of the Jovian Chronicles license. However, we will need to go back and revisit how they might work in a regular game. I have no doubt that they will reappear in some form for use in 2E games. :)
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