Some Noob Questions

General discussion of the Victory by Any Means campaign system
Orok
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Some Noob Questions

Postby Orok » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:09 pm

Hello from Germany!
Some friends and I playing our first VBAM Campaign(revised 1 Edition) on the internet. We use the virtual tabletop engine roll20.net and a forum. Works really good. So far we like the game very much, but it is hard to find some points in the rulebook.

Is it possible to get a supply route through an System without a Colony?
For example: Capital --> empty outpost--->Colony with Supply Depot

What is the DV for Civilian Fleets and Shipyards? Cant find this essential stat anywhere...

Hope you can help me.

Orok

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby Orok » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:12 pm

Nobody alive in this forum?

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BroAdso
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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby BroAdso » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:29 pm

There are a fair number of people alive here. I can't answer your question because I don't have the first edition campaign guide, unfortunately.

Also, it's a big holiday weekend here in the United States, so some of the people on the forum might be off doing family vacations and the like since I think many of them are Americans.

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby Orok » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:50 pm

Thanks for your post. At least some reaction build up my hope for help.

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby PaulB » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:14 pm

Hi Orok,

I wasn't able to find answers in the errata or in my campaign book to your question. So this isn't an official answer. However the unofficial answer is that in practice, Trade, Transport and Colony Fleets have different values. If you're creating your own ships to use, you can assign them different DV depending on how you want to depict the universe. I see the default costs are Trade (15), Transport (20) and Colony (30)

Now in 2nd Edition, the default value for all fleets is DV 10 (Trade and Transport are also reduced in cost to 10, Colony Fleets are still 30)

In some of the expansion modules, these fleets have different definitions. For example in the wars of Boltians and Kuissians its:
Trade Fleet - 15 Cost - DV 15
Transport Fleet - 15 Cost - DV 20
Colony Fleet - 25 Cost - DV 30

In Empire Rising, the values are very different
Trade Fleet - 15 Cost - DV 8
Military Transport Fleet - 25 Cost - DV 12
Transport Fleet - 20 Cost - DV 10
Colony Fleet - 60 Cost - DV 15

For the sake of simplicity, I might just suggest giving them DV = Cost. But you may want them more or less sturdy in your campaigns, depending on the setting

As for the Supply Route Issue, looking at the manual:

The 1st edition manual says "A basic supply route can have a length of two (2) jump lanes. A basic supply route may begin in a contested system and can only be traced through systems who space is contested or controlled by the player or a friendly power". The key thing to ask is what does contested mean?

Now the first edition manual unfortunately came before a lot of the exploration rules were put into the game. So the definition of contested assumes the player owns, ie has colonized the system.

However in 2nd edition, contested systems are defined as "A system is contested if it contains military forces that belong to competing, mutually hostile powers. This can mean that the opposing fleets are in the system, or that there are enemy ground forces landed in the system."

So by that definition, I think that you can only NOT trace a supply route through a system which is controlled by a hostile power. Also arguably, you might say you cannot trace a supply route through a uncontrolled space. So you may be required to leave a ship in the system in order to maintain control of its space. However for the sake of simplicity, I'd just ignore that and just say as long as there are no hostile enemies there you can get supplies through. That's how I played it in my solo exploration campaign, and one of the designers, Tyrel didn't seem to notice or object to it so I assume that's how it's done.

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby Orok » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:58 am

Thank you very much for this detailed answer PaulB. It was very helpful! Now i'm going on to rule the galaxy :D

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby PaulB » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:33 pm

No problem. If you got any more questions, just fire away.

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby mwaschak » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:03 pm

Sorry about the delay on my end! I was traveling for the last week and had the PC off for family time.

-Jay

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby PaulB » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:21 pm

I forgot to list the Shipyard btw. In Boltians & Kussiains, Shipyards have a DV 20 and Supply Bases are DV 10

Orok
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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby Orok » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:50 pm

Thanks again.
We go with:
So by that definition, I think that you can only NOT trace a supply route through a system which is controlled by a hostile power. Also arguably, you might say you cannot trace a supply route through a uncontrolled space. So you may be required to leave a ship in the system in order to maintain control of its space.

That feels right.

For Civilian Fleets (hard to believe that s.th. that essential is simply missing) we go with 1/3 EP-Cost as DV. Not too fragile, but Raiders remain a real danger.

New Questions:
-By the rules, there is no way to attack a Spacedock, a Defsat or a Station, if the owner didn't want it?

-All combat rules are for fleets of ships with max. 1/3 fixed defenses, if only fixed Defences remain, they can't defend a planet or prevent a fleet bombarding and attacking?

Both feels strange...

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby PaulB » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:50 am

Orok wrote:Thanks again.
We go with:
So by that definition, I think that you can only NOT trace a supply route through a system which is controlled by a hostile power. Also arguably, you might say you cannot trace a supply route through a uncontrolled space. So you may be required to leave a ship in the system in order to maintain control of its space.

That feels right.

For Civilian Fleets (hard to believe that s.th. that essential is simply missing) we go with 1/3 EP-Cost as DV. Not too fragile, but Raiders remain a real danger.


Yeah I dunno how it was missed either, nor in the errata. I think the thing is that a lot of people just made their own fleets and units, they didn't work from what was in the book. Could be wrong.

New Questions:
-By the rules, there is no way to attack a Spacedock, a Defsat or a Station, if the owner didn't want it?


Not sure that it is expressly supported in the rules, but I would think that if the defensive scenario is happening at a fixed point, then by necessity that fixed point would be included in the battle. Jay or Tyrel can confirm this. There would be no reason to have a DV for shipyards if they weren't in the battle.

Orok wrote:-All combat rules are for fleets of ships with max. 1/3 fixed defenses, if only fixed Defences remain, they can't defend a planet or prevent a fleet bombarding and attacking?


3.6.3.7

"If there are no ships included in a Task Force for one side, all defenses or planet-based flights included for that side's Task Force are considered to be in one Squadron"

So you can have only fixed defenses & planetary fighters in your task force. The 1/3rd rule represents that defenses would be spread around the diametre of a planet and not all would bear on the point of attack.

You can prevent a fleet bombarding the planet & invading if you destroy the fleet. But if you don't destroy it then they'll invade the planet. Basically a battle will happen, and surviving forces from that battle will shoot at the planet or land ships or whatnot. Next turn, I think you can assemble a new task force out of those remaining defenses and have another Defensive scenario.

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby Orok » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:15 am

PaulB wrote:3.6.3.7

"If there are no ships included in a Task Force for one side, all defenses or planet-based flights included for that side's Task Force are considered to be in one Squadron"

So you can have only fixed defenses & planetary fighters in your task force. The 1/3rd rule represents that defenses would be spread around the diametre of a planet and not all would bear on the point of attack.

You can prevent a fleet bombarding the planet & invading if you destroy the fleet. But if you don't destroy it then they'll invade the planet. Basically a battle will happen, and surviving forces from that battle will shoot at the planet or land ships or whatnot. Next turn, I think you can assemble a new task force out of those remaining defenses and have another Defensive scenario.


Ok. Don't know how I overlooked that. Thanks again for your help & patience.
Your answer leads to another question.
As I understand it, you can make countless scenarios between the same fleets in one turn, as long as one Player want it, and the other one didn't run. Your answer seems to say only one scenario is generated. I'm confused (more than normal)...

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby PaulB » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:54 am

Orok wrote:Ok. Don't know how I overlooked that. Thanks again for your help & patience.
Your answer leads to another question.
As I understand it, you can make countless scenarios between the same fleets in one turn, as long as one Player want it, and the other one didn't run. Your answer seems to say only one scenario is generated. I'm confused (more than normal)...


Oops yeah sorry my mistake. I've been playing it wrong! :shock:
You can indeed generate multiple encounters until either one guy runs away or they both decide they've had enough. I see that in the scenario example.

In your friend's example in the other thread, he'd have to fight a Deep Space scenario first and then after that, could force a Defensive scenario against those shipyards. He wouldn't need to do any fancy intel stuff if he's already read that.

Also one note about fixed defenses, if a fleet for example gets through an Interception scenario, it says they can do all of the planetary attacking stuff "provided they survive all subsequent scenarios generated and do not refuse any future Defensive Scenarios" (3.6.2.4). So if an invading fleet defeats the defenders fleet, then the defender I think can still demand defensive scenarios before the invader is allowed to land his troops and conduct other operations.

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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby PaulB » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:59 pm

By the way check out the VBAM yahoo group:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/VBAM/info

You might find some worthwhile files and fan-create content on there. It's also another place to ask questions.

Orok
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Re: Some Noob Questions

Postby Orok » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:44 pm

PaulB you are an extraordinary gentlemen. Thanks for all your help.

I proudly award you with the orokian Badge of Thanks.

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You are awesome!


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