First Timer Encounter Resolution Question

JoeBuckeye · Post by **JoeBuckeye** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:38 am

I am playing a sample game (Scenario 1) to learn the rules to basic VBAM.

At the start of the current turn the two sides (A,B) were at Normal relations and had ships co-existing in one powers system (A).

During the Intel phase of the current turn the visiting power (B) in the above system Declared Hostilities (with the help of 10 Intel points).

Power B has 9 ships (+ 5 flights) in the system and Power A has 5 ships (+ 1 flight). There are no other forces in the system (Power A will have some minefields at the end of the turn).

Power B asked for a Deep Space scenario. Power A responded with an offer of a Defensive Scenario. Power A basically doesn't want to fight this turn since they are outnumbered and have 9 ships moving into the system next turn.

If Power B refuses the Defensive Scenario they can declare a blockade but they don't have to do they? I would assume both sides would then be in supply and not interfere with movement of the other side.

Also, not sure what happens when a scenario is over. If neither side is willing to concede/withdraw, what happens? Would another scenario of the same type then be generated?

Gareth_Perkins · Post by **Gareth_Perkins** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:59 am

Strictly speaking, if player B wants a fight he has to accept the defensive scenario,

If player A keeps his vessels in a defensive position player B can either assault it, form a blockade of do nothing until next turn,

If player B does accept the defensive scenario then my understanding is that, yes, there may be further scenarios afterwards, but bear in mind the combat sequence,

Also, not sure what happens when a scenario is over. If neither side is willing to concede/withdraw, what happens? Would another scenario of the same type then be generated?

I think so, if one side forces a fight (depending upon who wants a fight it may be a defensive, deep space or a pursuit scenario I would think as either B will assault As positions again, or A will leave the defensive positions and either engage B away from them or pursue B towards the jump gate),

If player B opts to do nothing then yes, both sides should be able to move unhindered and retain normal supply routes. If he opts for the blockade then things are a bit more complex,

JoeBuckeye · Post by **JoeBuckeye** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:42 pm

Player B will accept the defensive scenario to force the fight. It doesn't matter really since there are no other defensive forces outside the ships. The only differences would be for attacker readiness (nothing worse than normal) and scenario length (longer).

I'm still not sure how to handle the situation if the scenario ends and nether side wants to retreat. I guess I'd roll up another Defensive Scenario.

andstrauss · Post by **andstrauss** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:15 am

JoeBuckeye wrote:I'm still not sure how to handle the situation if the scenario ends and nether side wants to retreat. I guess I'd roll up another Defensive Scenario.

I'd roll up another Defensive scenario.

Cheers,

Gareth_Perkins · Post by **Gareth_Perkins** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:40 am

JoeBuckeye wrote:Player B will accept the defensive scenario to force the fight. It doesn't matter really since there are no other defensive forces outside the ships. The only differences would be for attacker readiness (nothing worse than normal) and scenario length (longer).

If A has no other defensive assets then he may be better off accepting the deep-space scenario so as to avoid B getting a big surprise modifier!

Plus the deep space scenario should be shorter, so A can revise their plans after the deep space battle in accordance to the results,

JoeBuckeye · Post by **JoeBuckeye** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:37 pm

Gareth_Perkins wrote: If A has no other defensive assets then he may be better off accepting the deep-space scenario so as to avoid B getting a big surprise modifier!

Plus the deep space scenario should be shorter, so A can revise their plans after the deep space battle in accordance to the results,

I realized this after I posted about this. Since this is my first time playing I'm not aware of all the trade offs between the various scenario types.

JoeBuckeye · Post by **JoeBuckeye** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:45 pm

andstrauss wrote:
JoeBuckeye wrote:I'm still not sure how to handle the situation if the scenario ends and nether side wants to retreat. I guess I'd roll up another Defensive Scenario.
I'd roll up another Defensive scenario.

Cheers,

I went back to the rulebook to look through this more and it never really states what happens at the end of a scenario. The Extended Example in the book seems to imply that if another scenario is generated that it can only be one further down the resolution order list.

This order is:

1) Interception
2) Breakout
3) Deep Space
4) Defensive
5) Pursuit

So in my case it would seem that only a Pursuit Scenario could be generated after the Defensive scenario ends. But the question then becomes, who is doing the pursuing and who is being pursued if neither side wants to retreat?

Or is it a case of if the defensive player refuses to retreat that the attacker can't force the issue any further this turn? And must wait for the next turn to attack again? Could the attacker then declare a Blockade?

Gareth_Perkins · Post by **Gareth_Perkins** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:14 pm

So in my case it would seem that only a Pursuit Scenario could be generated after the Defensive scenario ends. But the question then becomes, who is doing the pursuing and who is being pursued if neither side wants to retreat?

I would argue that another defensive scenario could also be generated (you are still in step four right)?

If after that one side or the other wishes to withdraw (out of the system) then you could generate a pursuit scenario in accordance with that,

If not then I guess B still has the option of setting up a blockade, or just waiting for next turn,

JoeBuckeye · Post by **JoeBuckeye** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:50 pm

I would argue that another defensive scenario could also be generated (you are still in step four right)?

Maybe. After more reading of the encounter/scenario rules I see I'd missed something. The side with the higher AS value gets the first right to demand a scenario.

So in the example I am working on now, when the Defensive Scenario ends, the side with the higher AS value can either demand a Pursuit Scenario (which cannot, by rule, be denied) or pass. In that case then the smaller AS side can demand a Pursuit Scenario. Of course it may not be very wise for the smaller AS side to demand a Pursuit since they are smaller and can only command half the number of squadrons they normally could.

So it basically means that the bigger side can chase off the smaller side after a scenario.

This still leaves a question of what happens when the defending side of a Defensive scenario is not destroyed by the end of the scenario and it still has non-ship units left. Do those units surrender? The ships, if any, would be taking part in a Pursuit scenario.

I may try to build up a flow chart for system encounters based on my reading of the rules and then post it for others to comment on or correct.

Rainer · Post by **Rainer** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:51 am

So it basically means that the bigger side can chase off the smaller side after a scenario.

This still leaves a question of what happens when the defending side of a Defensive scenario is not destroyed by the end of the scenario and it still has non-ship units left. Do those units surrender? The ships, if any, would be taking part in a Pursuit scenario.

You can only demand a pursuit scenario if one side wishes to withdraw. If both sides want to stay, it cannot be generated.

Combat will simply continue during the next campaign turn.

Gareth_Perkins · Post by **Gareth_Perkins** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:22 am

JoeBuckeye wrote:I may try to build up a flow chart for system encounters based on my reading of the rules and then post it for others to comment on or correct.

A flow chart would definitely help - the text as written is simply to big to be able to take in easily!

There's a text file on the VBAM Yahoo! group that you may find helpful - it's essentially a flow-chart, but is laid out in text (so not perfect, but much easier to refer to),

Thing is, a turn is a long time to be fighting in, so there's no reason for the parties not to fight as many defensive battles as they want to,

Perhaps a solution might be to start the process from the top again after the first defensive battle (i.e.: does either player want a deep-space scenario, etc)?

Rainer · Post by **Rainer** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:21 am

I am not sure that this is a good idea as it will always lead to the total destruction of one side's forces in the system.

Anyway, the CSCR 2.0 rewrite will hopefully make things clearer.

Gareth_Perkins · Post by **Gareth_Perkins** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:23 am

Not always (especially when there's heavy static defensive assets) - but yes in most cases I can see what you're saying,

But either which way, I can see some merit in making sure most scenarios are fairly decisive within a turn (especially if your background features a lot of ships),

After a pursuit or breakthrough scenario I thought you where safe? So there is some ability to "bug out" after an encounter rather than fighting a new one,

JoeBuckeye · Post by **JoeBuckeye** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:11 pm

There's a text file on the VBAM Yahoo! group that you may find helpful - it's essentially a flow-chart, but is laid out in text (so not perfect, but much easier to refer to),

I just found that. Downloaded a bunch of files from there actually.

It is handy for determining what sort of scenario to play but doesn't really mention what happens after each scenario.

Thing is, a turn is a long time to be fighting in, so there's no reason for the parties not to fight as many defensive battles as they want to,

This is true but there is time spent during the turn to maneuver into position to fight. And since the CSCR resolution method is fairly abstract we can't be sure how long each round is.

I did find that for Interception/Breakout scenarios that in order to "breakthru" the intercepting/blockading force must have all units destroyed or crippled. But it does not say what happens when the intercepting/blockading forces are not all destroyed/crippled.

Maybe I'm reading to much into the rules without enough experience playing them. The situations I'm mentioning may come up rarely for all I know.

Gareth_Perkins · Post by **Gareth_Perkins** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:38 pm

JoeBuckeye wrote:I did find that for Interception/Breakout scenarios that in order to "breakthru" the intercepting/blockading force must have all units destroyed or crippled. But it does not say what happens when the intercepting/blockading forces are not all destroyed/crippled.

Well, if the intercepting force isn't all destroyed or crippled then the other side don't reach their destination.

Logically they can try again (and be subject to another interception scenario), bug out (possible pursuit scenario) or demand a deep space scenario (back to square one),

In the case of a breakthrough the forces are still within the blockade, so I would guess that they can either accept the status-quo until next turn or try to breakout again,

(I write this without reference to the rules, but hopefully it all still makes sense

)