CSCR 2

[japridemor]

I have noticed a couple of references to a redone CSCR. Any details?

[Charles Lewis]

We hope to have something to share by the end of this month or beginning of next.

[Tyrel Lohr]

It is still a work on progress. At our meeting last weekend we set up a plan to get at least some draft candidates ready by the end of the year. The intent with the CSCR 2.0 is to try to correct some underlying problems in the CSCR system, including increasing the usefulness of formation bonuses and depowering flights to a degree.

For my part, I have been beating my head against the wall with formations. I want to make them more useful, but without making it hard to remember how exactly they work.

My current feelings on the matter is that the formations should provide a separate damage-reduction bonus in addition to their effects on Directed Damage. The best way I have found to do this is to have damage scored against a ship in a formation bonus ignore a number of points of damage equal to its formation level. So a ship in level 2 formation bonus that takes 3 points of damage would only receive 1 point of attrition damage.

Directed damage would then be changed so that you could do directed damage against squadrons or individual units, with the formation bonus level acting as a multiplier to determine how many points of damage are required to score one point of attrition damage to the unit.

I need to sit down and collect my notes on the subject, but I think it can be handled fairly well.

Another aspect that will be changed is how Scouts work in combat, as they are currently too powerful and need toned down.

Once CSCR 2.0 is finished, it will replace the CSCR and CSCR Skirmish rules in the book; there will only be one, consolidated CSCR system available.

[Charles Lewis]

Uh, yeah, like he said.

[Tyrel Lohr]

There is quite a bit to cover, and each of the core developers will be submitting their "wish lists" so to speak as to what we think need changed, and then reach a final consensus from there. We all have an idea of what we would like to change, but we just haven't had time to sit down and really hammer things out yet (between MAS, Star Charts and the busy time of year).

We are going to get there, and sooner rather than later.

[Rainer]

Once CSCR 2.0 is finished, it will replace the CSCR and CSCR Skirmish rules in the book; there will only be one, consolidated CSCR system available.

That is good. However when it becomes combined with the idea that formation bonus applies to regular damage, it becomes BAD.

Especially in smaller fights, it makes the combat potentially unbalanced as instead of doing a few points of damage, you are doing suddenly none. After all, you can assign the damage any way you want and somehow I can see that always the flagship damage sink will be chosen (and the damage disappears).

[Rainer]

There is quite a bit to cover, and each of the core developers will be submitting their "wish lists" so to speak as to what we think need changed, and then reach a final consensus from there. We all have an idea of what we would like to change, but we just haven't had time to sit down and really hammer things out yet (between MAS, Star Charts and the busy time of year).

I think you have already mentioned the main problems. If just they get fixed, I am happy. Everything else is a bonus.

[nimrodd]

After all, you can assign the damage any way you want and somehow I can see that always the flagship damage sink will be chosen (and the damage disappears).

But if there is one system, there will probably be attrition damage, and thus the damage to that flagship won't "disappear".

[Rainer]

So a ship in level 2 formation bonus that takes 3 points of damage would only receive 1 point of attrition damage.

I am referring to this part. Yes, there will be attrition damage but if you score only 2 (or less) points of damage then it seems that the flagship can simply be used to ignore it.

[Tyrel Lohr]

That is good. However when it becomes combined with the idea that formation bonus applies to regular damage, it becomes BAD.

The damage reduction works well when used in conjunction with (IIRC) Mike Riddle's idea of tying innate formation bonuses to the number of ships in a squadron, and the number of ships in a task force. It still needs to be balanced and tested, but so far in the games I have tried it has worked all right.

As for the other imbalance you pointed out, that is something that I have thought about, too, and it would be solved by adding a caveat that if a player could score the damage against a unit and score damage, then he has to do so; he can't use his high-formation bonus ships as damage sponges.

An alternative system that does away with the damage reduction capability is to have formation bonuses be effective priority levels so that units with the lowest formation bonus level in a squadron must take non-directed damage first before any other units in the squadron.

[Bandit]

I will have to dig up my home grown version of CSCR 2 (Bandit Edition) to see how I dealt with the formation bonus issue. It seemed to work fine in both large and small scale battles. I think my solution was to do away with the sillyness of directed damage.

As for my own personal desires of CSCR 2.0, it needs to be impartial enought so that 1 person can easily run the battles.

[MarkG88]

That is good. However when it becomes combined with the idea that formation bonus applies to regular damage, it becomes BAD.

The damage reduction works well when used in conjunction with (IIRC) Mike Riddle's idea of tying innate formation bonuses to the number of ships in a squadron, and the number of ships in a task force. It still needs to be balanced and tested, but so far in the games I have tried it has worked all right.

As for the other imbalance you pointed out, that is something that I have thought about, too, and it would be solved by adding a caveat that if a player could score the damage against a unit and score damage, then he has to do so; he can't use his high-formation bonus ships as damage sponges.

An alternative system that does away with the damage reduction capability is to have formation bonuses be effective priority levels so that units with the lowest formation bonus level in a squadron must take non-directed damage first before any other units in the squadron.

This sounds good to me. Escort class ships (aka cannon-fodder) will get chewed up first, as they should since they are on the outside of the formation screening it.

[japridemor]

Any more movement on this? Are extensive changes to the CSCR invisioned?

[Charles Lewis]

Jay has drafted up a new scenario generation process, and we're still hashing out how to "fix" fighters, scouts and directed damage. Things stalled out at the end of 2007 for a variety of personal reasons, but we're getting things moving again.

[mwaschak]

It is definitely drafted, but we have been going back and forth about some rules, and changes. One of the players came up with an excellent idea for formations and fighters. Now that we are hip deep in talking FC and the SFU, I am finding there may be some commonality in rule testing I have to do which will benefit both.

-Jay